How many BBQ joints does it take to make a good entrtmnt district?

[guido911]

BBQ is much like Mexican, in that I'll eat every kind from everywhere. I just think I'll run into Rib Crib and get a Cribwich for lunch and be out the door for <$10 than I ever will go to Albert G's

Gaffigan on Mexican food (at 1:50 but the whole clip is good):

http://comedians.jokes.com/jim-gaffigan/videos/jim-gaffigan---bottled-water/

[sgrizzle]

He probably will drop the harvard location or let somebody else run that one.  All his money will be on downtown and should get the attention.

Big assumption

[Gaspar]

I tried Wilson's on 11th several times for lunch and each time the brisket was incredibly dry.  Almost as if they were re-heating it.  Go to the one on Apache and you don't seem to have that issue.  Much of Wilson's growth and success over the years was J.B. Wilson.  BBQ is an art and you have to have a passion for it to do it right.  That's what's missing from a chain like Rib Crib is you don't get that passion in every bite.

Obviously everyone has their own preferences in BBQ much like Mexican.  Grizzle completely panned Albert G's but loves Wranglers.  I'm pretty meh on Wranglers.  Doesn't make either of us wrong, it's just differing tastes.

We have noticed a few trends over the years and some are rather disgraceful.  Many BBQ joints have given up on offering an authentic product and have turned to other means.  For instance, some have begun to use an injection of MSG and a combination of sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite in their rub.  Some of the large meat suppliers offer this product packaged and ready for the smoker.

The effects of the MSG are obvious. . .it makes things taste better.
The chemical rub is more disturbing. . .it causes a reaction on the outside of the meat giving it an artificial "smoke ring"  It also causes the meat to retain moisture and tenderize.  When they smoke, they use far less time and wood and cook at a higher temp.  They then wrap the meat in cellophane and refrigerate.  This allows them to keep and reheat the meat in a steam box each day.  They may only cook two or three times a week!

What you get is something that tastes like BBQ.  It's moist and flavorful but lacks the tenderness and texture of the real product.  If you have a perceived sensitivity to chemicals like MSG or nitrates/nitrites you should inquire about who they get their meat from.  If they respond with one of the large restaurant meat suppliers, chances are you are getting an engineered product.

This is completely unnecessary if you know what you're doing, but if you are going to hire a kid off the street to do your cooking, this is the financially sound choice. . .until people figure it out!

[rdj]

I agree about Back Alley.  It could become the El Guapo of BBQ.  Decent but not award winning food with a great atmosphere.  If there is one thing Blake Ewing's group has done well it is create a great atmosphere in their places.  Heres to hoping it does well.

Also, where will Rib Crib patrons park?  This is a  generalization, but won't the majority of Rib Crib's dinner/weekend patrons be folks not overly familiar with downtown?  They are going to want front door parking.  Lyon's has completely gone surbanite with protecting their ten spots next to their space.  Mary Beth of Dwelling Spaces told me yesterday she is being forced to put up signs designating her reserved spots that come with her lease because of Lyon's and the city's stepped of enforcement of parking.  That takes care of the lot to the south.

More importantly than the BBQ, where is the Met going to be located?

[Conan71]

He probably will drop the harvard location or let somebody else run that one.  All his money will be on downtown and should get the attention.

As I recall from the Tulsa World article, there was nothing about him closing the Harvard location.  I would assume he's got someone in the fold who will manage it who has been there awhile.

[Conan71]

We have noticed a few trends over the years and some are rather disgraceful.  Many BBQ joints have given up on offering an authentic product and have turned to other means.  For instance, some have begun to use an injection of MSG and a combination of sodium nitrate and sodium nitrite in their rub.  Some of the large meat suppliers offer this product packaged and ready for the smoker.

The effects of the MSG are obvious. . .it makes things taste better.
The chemical rub is more disturbing. . .it causes a reaction on the outside of the meat giving it an artificial "smoke ring"  It also causes the meat to retain moisture and tenderize.  When they smoke, they use far less time and wood and cook at a higher temp.  They then wrap the meat in cellophane and refrigerate.  This allows them to keep and reheat the meat in a steam box each day.  They may only cook two or three times a week!

What you get is something that tastes like BBQ.  It's moist and flavorful but lacks the tenderness and texture of the real product.  If you have a perceived sensitivity to chemicals like MSG or nitrates/nitrites you should inquire about who they get their meat from.  If they respond with one of the large restaurant meat suppliers, chances are you are getting an engineered product.

This is completely unnecessary if you know what you're doing, but if you are going to hire a kid off the street to do your cooking, this is the financially sound choice. . .until people figure it out!

Care to name names?  Sodium nitrite and nitrate are a couple other additives I try and avoid along with MSG, "yeast extract" and the other terms they use for that flavor short cut.

[DolfanBob]

I thought there was a new BBQ place coming to Downtown Tulsa from the KC area.
I cant remember the name but everyone here on the forum was just exstatic that it was going to open. help me out here boys.

[Conan71]

I thought there was a new BBQ place coming to Downtown Tulsa from the KC area.
I cant remember the name but everyone here on the forum was just exstatic that it was going to open. help me out here boys.

Oklahoma Joe's to the Brady District as I recall

[Vision 2025]

The effects of the MSG are obvious . . .

Especially if you are allergic as I and much of the population is to various extents.  For me MSG is a Migraine trigger and when I'm king for a day it will be forever banned!

On the question at hand, I like G's and Rib Crib too and I agree that the catering market will likely favor RC and where is Oklahoma Joe's?  No Q is perfect, well except mine of course...

[rdj]

Oklahoma Joe's to the Brady District as I recall

I've heard that it is delayed or cancelled.

[RecycleMichael]

More importantly than the BBQ, where is the Met going to be located?

I moved over to the Brady area. I am now in the building across the street from the Brady Theater.

I went to a party last Saturday night that was catered by Rib Crib. BBQ for 300 and they did an excellent job. I had a pulled pork sandwich and some chicken that were both very good.

I think Back Alley BBQ will be fine. He can out market everybody with creative stuff and has done a good job getting side dishes just right. I love his pulled pork pizza and I have real faith that he is going to make some quality food. Back Alley is going to have more of an authentic Memphis style dry rub BBQ which I prefer. The others are more of a KC style of BBQ.

I eat Albert G's all the time. His prices are a little high, but I really like his brisket and sauces. His Harvard location is also very convenient for me.

I think all these guys are good restauranteurs. They can all make it if they focus on the food and service.

[dbacks fan]

My question is, and I have seen this happen here, how long after three or four places open up and start smoking, will it be before some one complains about the smoke smell. A local place here expanded into a closed IHOP near some office buildings. After one week they were ordered by the city to cease cooking operations because of the smoke. They now have to cook the meat at their original location and then transport it to this location to serve it.

[custosnox]

Back Alley is looking great, it will have the atmosphere.  I really think it will have regular customers even if it has mediocre Q.  I do hope the food is up to the level of everything else there.  Regardless of the food, it will still be a great place just to come and have a drink and relax.  

[Gaspar]

My question is, and I have seen this happen here, how long after three or four places open up and start smoking, will it be before some one complains about the smoke smell. A local place here expanded into a closed IHOP near some office buildings. After one week they were ordered by the city to cease cooking operations because of the smoke. They now have to cook the meat at their original location and then transport it to this location to serve it.

Depends on the smoker.  There are some very high dollar smokers that put out almost no smoke, or run the exhaust through scrubbers.  This is a good idea because BBQ smoke is very very toxic.

Yea! Really!

Three things are happening when you smoke.  First you are burning wood at low tempatures producing smoke that is full of hundreds of carcinogens.  Second you are sometimes grilling or finishing product creating heterocyclic amines a known carcinogen.  Then finally you are melting away fat, and as that vaporizes it releases polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons another powerful carcinogen.

The smell of BBQ is wonderful, but it's probably worse for you than the occasional cigarette.

To the occasional BBQer this is probably not a problem, but if you work in or near a BBQ joint and are smelling it all day long, you are probably getting a healthy dose of something not to healthy.

[rdj]

There is an potential upside here.  If the places all get support, Blue Dome will soon become known for having a concentration of BBQ.  This will become big as downtown attracts more events and outsiders look for things to do.  

That is a great point.  Being "known" for something is a very strong marketing message.