How many BBQ joints does it take to make a good entrtmnt district?

[RecycleMichael]

Artist, do you mean the buildings on the west side of Detroit Ave south of Enso?  If so, I wouldn't park my car in them because they are about to fall down.  An American Parking employee told me the cost to rehab and bring to code is too high for a reasonable return.  It's too bad because they're cool looking buildings.

Not true.

That American Parking employee is just bad-mouthing their competition. The buildings are fine.

I know the owner well and he has had quite a bit of interest from developers. I think they will become a new retail or restaurant soon after the Rib Crib opens. 

[Gaspar]

They look perfectly fine inside for me.  Cement floors, exposed ceilings and walls... beautiful. Fix up? Fix up what lol?  I have got about $30,000 worth of antiques I am tired of looking at and could mix in some contemporary furniture/decore/gifty items along with that, could do some artwork while I am there, have some friends who also want to do the same thing and could partition the space, and I am off tomorrow and could do it then lol.

Perceived parking problem....I don't see it and I don't give a F about the kind of freakish idiot that would.  And we are not going to have good transit worrying about parking more than worrying about having concentrations of pedestrian friendly shopping/living/business/entertainment.

The population of Tulsa believes that if you can't park 3 steps from the door, it's not worth the trip.  To park in a lot and walk a block to visit a retail offering is almost unthinkable!  My God!  What will you do if you buy something?  Carry it?

Sounds ridiculous, but we have a long way to go until we overcome it.  As long as there are thousands of offerings in other parts of town where fat, round Tulsans can park at the door, waddle in and shop in wide isles, a surface lot, garage, bus, or train that requires exertion is out of the question.

[Cats Cats Cats]

I just don't want to pay to park.  On a friday night with a baseball game, pac event, back alley grand opening... I couldn't find a damn place to park less than 10 blocks away.  It was still damn hot outside.

[rdj]

Not true.

That American Parking employee is just bad-mouthing their competition. The buildings are fine.

I know the owner well and he has had quite a bit of interest from developers. I think they will become a new retail or restaurant soon after the Rib Crib opens. 

Considering at least one of those buildings is operated by American Parking, what competition are you referring to?

[carltonplace]

Tell that to a small business owner who's got to account for all possible business factors to his loan officer.  "So, where are your customers going to park?"  Like it or not, it's not a "perceived" problem, it's real and has to be accounted for somehow... with creative options that make best use of space, but still has to be accounted for. 

Which is why some sort of above or below ground stacked parking east of the PAC would be great for the BD and the CBD

[ZYX]

I just don't want to pay to park.  On a friday night with a baseball game, pac event, back alley grand opening... I couldn't find a damn place to park less than 10 blocks away.  It was still damn hot outside.

Then park 11 blocks away. Walking is not difficult. I enjoy walking through downtown. You get to see everything. It's no fun when you just drive through it all. In other cities, ten blocks is not a long walk. We need to learn in Tulsa that when you go downtown, you WALK. We will never have a truly dense downtown unless we force people to walk.

[Gaspar]

. . . unless we force people to walk.

Learn the lesson, a free market society abhors force.

You can change perception through marketing, that's about all.  Until there is more value or convenience, the consumer will seek the path of least resistance to acquire products and services.  You have to work on selling the experience and turning the "walk" perceived as a negative into a positive. 

You cannot force anyone to do anything. 

[ZYX]

Learn the lesson, a free market society abhors force.

You can change perception through marketing, that's about all.  Until there is more value or convenience, the consumer will seek the path of least resistance to acquire products and services.  You have to work on selling the experience and turning the "walk" perceived as a negative into a positive. 

You cannot force anyone to do anything. 

By force people to walk, I meant not cater to their every wish to easily park their car. Build parking garages, but don't build one on every block. Build a few, and then no more. People can walk. I HATE when people say there is nothing to do downtown, and then grab their pitchforks everytime a development that takes away parking is proposed.

[DowntownDan]

Parking is a reality of business that requires consideration when developing downtown.  I don't think the walking is as big of an issue as having to pay to park.  Other than for a ball game or special event, you can't ask people to pay $5 to park to just walk around and window shop or have a meal.  I think the fat lazy suburbanites that refuse to go downtown and require Wal-Mart parking are not really a factor to consider because they will not go downtown anyway.  It's just not in their lifestyle.  But there are still lots of people in South Tulsa and the suburbs who want to see a vibrant downtown, but they will need to drive to get there.  Public transportation just isn't going to thrive in Tulsa and I see it as a waste to even pretend that Tulsans will give up their cars.  At least not until gas reaches $5 plus per gallon permanently, and even then the trend will be towards smaller electric or hybrid cars, not public transportation.  I'll admit, I like having control over my movement and even when in downtown environments, I like having my car with me so I can come and go as I please without having to worry about a bus schedule.  I would purchase an electric car before using the bus.  Not that I'm too good for public transit, I just find it inconvenient, especially in Tulsa where bus routes are not predicatble and do not run in short intervals.  Tulsa is not NYC or San Francisco, and never will be in that respect.  I can accept that.  I don't think asking people to walk a few blocks is going to be a problem downtown.  Volume is the factor that needs to be taken into consideration as downtown attracts more people and surface lots go away.  I don't think Blue Dome really has a problem since that huge lot can handle lots of people, and there are several surface lots still within walking distance.

[Conan71]

Those of us who frequent downtown know how to avoid paying for parking and having to walk terribly far, even on big event nights.  One thing that does help during something like St. Patrick's Day or Tulsa Tough is to ride a motorcycle, you can always park a whole lot closer in.

[OurTulsa]

I just don't want to pay to park.  On a friday night with a baseball game, pac event, back alley grand opening... I couldn't find a damn place to park less than 10 blocks away.  It was still damn hot outside.

C'mon man.  I parked for free, on the street, just south of 3rd and Elgin just before 7pm to take the family, including little ones, to the Drillers game on that same night.  It took all of 5 minutes to walk to Archer and Elgin.  Walking through the Blue Dome with the Back Alley event was enjoyable especially with the live music going on the way home.  

Our central city suffers from general poor perceptions.  We don't need more parking downtown.  In the aggregate, we've got TONS of parking: surface, street, and structure.  The City should continue to improve the public realm - the public experience as a pedestrian so that walking doesn't feel so unbearable and individuals feel better about walking more than a block to a destination; think shade trees, flowers, fountains, pleasant street lighting, shorter crosswalks.  It helps tremendously if the ground level of buildings are built up to sidewalks and present an active and engaging street level facade.  

Downtown's on its way back.  There are some very exciting things that have recently happened and are happening and planned to happen that are drawing more people down here.  I think some synergy is building that will continue to draw more people and business investment down here.  If there is something that people want to be here for, including just the plain ole' energy that crowds of people tend to generate they'll walk.  Our City can help by making sure the public realm more than supports that mode of transport or else our streets will be used uneccessrily by people cruising just a few blocks looking for door front parking.  I tend to think that we can incorporate a safe, fun, identifiable transit system that is practical (and free or very inexpensive to users) to help support business investment and perception down here as well.

Even round lazy okie will walk when it's enjoyable.

[RecycleMichael]

Considering at least one of those buildings is operated by American Parking, what competition are you referring to?

The building directly south of ENSO.

[RecycleMichael]

C'mon man.  I parked for free, on the street, just south of 3rd and Elgin just before 7pm to take the family, including little ones, to the Drillers game on that same night.  It took all of 5 minutes to walk to Archer and Elgin.  Walking through the Blue Dome with the Back Alley event was enjoyable especially with the live music going on the way home.  

I too went to the Blue Dome that evening and parked on the street halfway between the restaurant and the ball park. Charlie, you must suck at finding free parking.

[Red Arrow]

People around here will walk when there is something they believe is worth a walk.  A walk from the outer parking lots at Woodland Hills is probably farther than most walks downtown.  Just something to think about.

[TheTed]

I can't speak for that specific night, but I'd be willing to wager a sizable sum that I could find completely legal free parking within four-five blocks of any downtown destination at any time, no matter how many events are in town.

Just start heading toward the more desolate parts of downtown (south/southeast if you're going to the Blue Dome). If nothing else, just park in an alley or a spot along the street that's not really a spot.

There's no parking enforcement on weekends anyway. As long as you're not double parked blocking a police car, I don't think it's possible to get a ticket on nights/weekends.