Philtower Watering Hole

[Gaspar]

They gotta compete with the Mayo Penthouse. It's the draw for the Mayo which has gotten filthy from all their clients.  

The classy places downtown are no more. Even the Summit got dumbed down.

Everyone figures there's a solid middle class wanting to pour their bucks down town.

Someone needs to bring back private private clubs with standards and dress codes.  

It is interesting to see the change in "demographic".  

20 years ago I used to enjoy visiting many of the restaurants and upper-class bars down town, if nothing more than to just rub elbows with some of Tulsa's elite and see the best dressed in their best dress.  

I still enjoy downtown, but the demo has changed.  Downtown has become far more casual.  The penthouse at the Mayo is indeed grand, but the clientele is loud, in many cases drunk, and dressed for a tractor-pull.  The same can be said of many other establishments downtown.

I'm not a big fan of dress codes, but I do like it when people take pride in their appearance and behavior.  There are still many places in Tulsa that offer a more upscale experience, they are just harder to find downtown.

As to your comments about private clubs, their time is past.  The Summit club is a ghost town on nearly every recent visit I've had there.  A few piles of old bones still have their supper there every night, but there is no vitality left in that place.  They used to offer a "Youth Membership" and I'm not sure if they still do, but I remember the result (back when I used to have one) was that the younger entrepreneur crowd simply pissed off the older regulars.

On the contrary, visit places like the Bistro at Seville (101st and Yale) on almost any night of the week and you will find those missing upper-class folks dressed to the tees, enjoying libations, energetic conversions and behaving as adults.

How do you get these folks back downtown to spend their money on these activities?  
Dress codes?  NO
Increased prices? NO
Atmosphere?  NO

You get what you get based on simple demographic changes.  Downtown is now dominated by companies with call centers, support centers, billing, collections, outbound sales, and middle management.  

Our push to be a "Technology Forward Community" has been somewhat successful in creating a downtown culture filled with small cogs rather than big wheels.  

If you want to find the innovators, owners, and the culture that surrounds them you have to look elsewhere.

[Townsend]

On the contrary, visit places like the Bistro at Seville (101st and Yale) on almost any night of the week and you will find those missing upper-class folks dressed to the tees, enjoying libations, energetic conversions and behaving as adults.

Have you been there lately?  I've understood it's fallen in quality considerably.

I frequent many establishments downtown.  Probably more than I should.  Maybe my idea of presentable dress is different from other posters.

I don't wear a fedora, suit and tie, or a bright white tennis outfit.  I also don't talk gritting my teeth and looking for Buffy.  (Try it...grit your teeth and say "Buffet")

I'm not dressed in torn clothing either. 

Your Southy restaurants certainly have never turned me away and I live my Springs, Summers, and Autumns in flip-flops.  It's our regional dress code, not a downtown dress code.

Wear what you want.  I wear what I wear and feel fine in it.  If an establishent told me I need a jacket to dine or drink there I will accept that and go elsewhere.  There are far too many options to worry about it.

[Gaspar]

Have you been there lately?  I've understood it's fallen in quality considerably.

I frequent many establishments downtown.  Probably more than I should.  Maybe my idea of presentable dress is different from other posters.

I don't wear a fedora, suit and tie, or a bright white tennis outfit.  I also don't talk gritting my teeth and looking for Buffy.  (Try it...grit your teeth and say "Buffet")

I'm not dressed in torn clothing either. 

Your Southy restaurants certainly have never turned me away and I live my Springs, Summers, and Autumns in flip-flops.  It's our regional dress code, not a downtown dress code.

Wear what you want.  I wear what I wear and feel fine in it.  If an establishent told me I need a jacket to dine or drink there I will accept that and go elsewhere.  There are far too many options to worry about it.

I agree, and again I said I am no fan of dress codes, I was simply responding to FOTD's comment with my impressions.  I would however like to see you in a bright white tennis outfit. 

about 20 years ago when I used to work downtown the changes were already beginning, however many of the buildings had dozens of offices on each floor flaunting their own shingle.  Many of your big business owners had an office there because that's where business was done.  Not so much anymore.

Tulsa doesn't' have any "Class A" office space downtown, and for the cost of "Class B" or "C", you can build your own building elsewhere and lease half of it to pay for the rest.  Those that do choose to locate downtown rely on an economy of scale and office density (cube-farm) environment to balance the cost.  The result is that the environment is attractive to call centers and other high-density employment environments.

This translates into a more casual environment for the establishments downtown.

[carltonplace]

As a society we've changed our additudes about dress and what is appropriate. Most of us like casual when we go out even to more upscale places. People will dress up for a benefit, wedding, the opera/symphony but are less likely to do so just to eat of get drinks.

I love the mayo penthouse..agreed that the crowd gets loud and rowdy as the night wears on.

Can't wait to see a new venture on Boston Ave. Hopefully as more new places open the existing places will rethink their hours and stay open later.

[we vs us]

I wear a suit to work every day, and you can trust me when I say that Tulsa is far from formal these days.  But really it's the American business environment that's far from formal.  For guys, throw on some khakis and a button down and you're ready to go.  Toss on a blazer if you're meeting clients.  When I show up to someone's office, instead of me projecting respectability and business acumen, folks inevitably think I'm the bearer of bad news -- either a casket, an audit, or an FBI investigation.

I think that's good in a lot of ways.  It means that business is more accessible and democratized, and it means the unwashed riff raff can participate.  But of course it also means that some of the glamor has worn off, and some of the things that -- in memory, at least -- ennobled the business profession.  

[Red Arrow]

folks inevitably think I'm the bearer of bad news -- either a casket, an audit, or an FBI investigation.

I think that's good in a lot of ways.  

You neglected to mention IRS.

I'm glad I don't have to wear a suit working as an engineer as my father did.  I've never been comfortable in one and I believe being forced to wear a suit (or even coat and tie) is counterproductive.

[TURobY]

I'm glad I don't have to wear a suit working as an engineer as my father did.  I've never been comfortable in one and I believe being forced to wear a suit (or even coat and tie) is counterproductive.

Agreed. I'm a software designer, and our workplace dress is completely casual (think t-shirt and jeans). If no customers are going to see me, and I'm expected to work late nights/early mornings, then a tie or even a long-sleeve buttondown seems entirely unnecessary. I'll wear a suit only when going out to meet a client.

[Townsend]

Agreed. I'm a software designer, and our workplace dress is completely casual (think t-shirt and jeans). If no customers are going to see me, and I'm expected to work late nights/early mornings, then a tie or even a long-sleeve buttondown seems entirely unnecessary. I'll wear a suit only when going out to meet a client.

Well if we're all telling what we're wearing...

Anyway, I'm pleased there's another place for me and the little missus to enjoy downtown.

[Conan71]

I wore a tie until the late 1990's.  It's nice jeans with a golf shirt these days.  Seems it was about 1995 or so when I noticed fewer and fewer people wearing ties.  If I see people in ties at lunch I assume they are attornies, upper management at one of the banks, or funeral directors.

[Teatownclown]

I wore a tie until the late 1990's.  It's nice jeans with a golf shirt these days.  Seems it was about 1995 or so when I noticed fewer and fewer people wearing ties.  If I see people in ties at lunch I assume they are attornies, upper management at one of the banks, or funeral directors.

My point had little to do with dress and much to do with character and mindfulness.

Have a little taste?

"Man thinks 'cause he rules the earth he can do with it as he please
And if things don't change soon, he will
Oh, man has invented his doom
First step was touching the moon"
Bob Dylan

[Conan71]

Have a little taste?

Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste.

[dbacks fan]

Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste.

But what's puzzling you is the nature of my game.

[Townsend]

SATAN?

[Teatownclown]

Please allow me to introduce myself, I'm a man of wealth and taste.

Don't make me turn this myth on it's head.....

[Jeff P]

Hello everyone.  This is my first post after being a long-time lurker to this forum.

My name is Jeff and for full disclosure, I work in PR for Williams.  So please let me know if you ever have a Williams-related questions.

I wanted to respond to this:

Downtown is now dominated by companies with call centers, support centers, billing, collections, outbound sales, and middle management.  

Our push to be a "Technology Forward Community" has been somewhat successful in creating a downtown culture filled with small cogs rather than big wheels.  

If you want to find the innovators, owners, and the culture that surrounds them you have to look elsewhere.

So while downtown might not have as many company HQs as in years past, I don't know if I'd say those other types of establishments "dominate" the downtown scene.

You still have HQ personnel for Williams, ONEOK, BOK, Magellan, Level 3, Cimerex, Newfield, and PSO, among others.  You also have several major law and accounting firms with offices downtown.  The combination of all these represents several thousand employees that aren't working in call centers, support centers, etc. Most, if not all of them, fully qualify for the "upper-middle-class" demo you're discussing.

If people in that demographic don't hang out downtown, it probably has more to do with the fact that they don't live there, vs. not working there.

Just my .02.