California to free 40,000 prisoners

[Conan71]

Same concept happens to the "little guy".  I've seen guys buy a car, making payments based on time-and-a-half overtime.  The overtime goes away and they lose the car. 

I don't know anyone who works there anymore, but my ex brother in law and another friend were long-timers at Nordam.  When things were going along well, you could get 30-40 hours a week overtime if you wanted it.  My ex BIL was offered a job at American and had to turn it down because he would have taken a sharp pay cut, due to the massive amounts of O/T he was banking at the time.  I'm aware of guys who were making $70-$90K in the bonding dept. at Nordam 10 or so years ago.  When there would be a slowdown, no more o/t.  And yes, they were all living a lifestyle as if the O/T would never run out.

[Teatownclown]

Here's what prison overcrowding looks like
See the photos used to convince the Supreme Court that California prison living conditions are unconstitutional
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2011/05/24/california_prison_photos/index.html

California Prison Academy: Better Than a Harvard Degree
Prison guards can retire at the age of 55 and earn 85% of their final year's salary for the rest of their lives. They also continue to receive medical benefits.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704132204576285471510530398.html


Get rid of the "for profit" prison system.

[Red Arrow]

Here's what prison overcrowding looks like
See the photos used to convince the Supreme Court that California prison living conditions are unconstitutional
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2011/05/24/california_prison_photos/index.html

The second picture with the rows of bunk beds reminds me of Navy Boot Camp.  I wish I had some pictures of the sleeping accomodations on an Aircraft Carrier.  The area where I was on the JFK (for carrier quals) had 3 bunks within about 8 vertical feet.  Part of each bunk was a "locker" under the mattress for storage for your clothes and personal belongings.  I'm about 5' 10" tall and the bunks were too short for me.

You might guess I have little sympathy for the crowding I see in the pictures.

[Conan71]

Here's what prison overcrowding looks like
See the photos used to convince the Supreme Court that California prison living conditions are unconstitutional
http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2011/05/24/california_prison_photos/index.html

California Prison Academy: Better Than a Harvard Degree
Prison guards can retire at the age of 55 and earn 85% of their final year's salary for the rest of their lives. They also continue to receive medical benefits.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704132204576285471510530398.html


Get rid of the "for profit" prison system.

I don't disagree it sounds like the California prison guards are over-paid.  Question is, would there be enough people to fill the positions at lower salaries?  That's a pretty rough occupation.

[we vs us]

The second picture with the rows of bunk beds reminds me of Navy Boot Camp.  I wish I had some pictures of the sleeping accomodations on an Aircraft Carrier.  The area where I was on the JFK (for carrier quals) had 3 bunks within about 8 vertical feet.  Part of each bunk was a "locker" under the mattress for storage for your clothes and personal belongings.  I'm about 5' 10" tall and the bunks were too short for me.

You might guess I have little sympathy for the crowding I see in the pictures.

Are you ready to commit to something like that for a 10 year sentence?  How about 20 years?  How about life?  It ain't your standard 18 month tour.

[Gaspar]

Are you ready to commit to something like that for a 10 year sentence?  How about 20 years?  How about life?  It ain't your standard 18 month tour.

I assume that Red probably didn't rape, stab or shoot anyone to get there.  I may be wrong.

[Red Arrow]

I assume that Red probably didn't rape, stab or shoot anyone to get there.  I may be wrong.

No, I was not a troublemaker.  There were some "kids" that were ordered into the service rather than send them to jail.  For some of them, it was a good deal.  It changed their lives in a good way.   

I was born on a day that got me a low draft lottery number.  Technically I joined the Navy as only the Army and Marines were actually drafting at the time.  The Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard benefited from the draft because of people like me that were forced into the service but chose not to be in the Army or Marines. 

[Red Arrow]

Are you ready to commit to something like that for a 10 year sentence?  How about 20 years?  How about life?  It ain't your standard 18 month tour.

You mean like a career in the service?  Shore duty after bootcamp and schools wasn't bad, no worse than a dorm at college.  I don't remember the usual rotation cycle but the guys on Sea Duty spent a lot of time in crowded conditions.

[we vs us]

You mean like a career in the service?  Shore duty after bootcamp and schools wasn't bad, no worse than a dorm at college.  I don't remember the usual rotation cycle but the guys on Sea Duty spent a lot of time in crowded conditions.

I just meant that a lot of those guys living in bunks might be there for the duration of their sentences -- which could be anywhere from a year or so up to life.  It would be a different ballgame IMO if you had to live in a gym for a decade or so.

[Gaspar]

I just meant that a lot of those guys living in bunks might be there for the duration of their sentences -- which could be anywhere from a year or so up to life.  It would be a different ballgame IMO if you had to live in a gym for a decade or so.

They have a bed, electricity, 3 squares a day, clothing, free healthcare, and they are only a threat to each other.  I am also sure that they spend a great deal of time reflecting on the choices that got them there. 

I assume that in many cases the living conditions there are far better than the living conditions they came from, or would return to if released. 

Sure, it's crowded, so what!  The coffins of some of their victims are a bit cramped too, and filled with bugs.

Prison is not supposed to be resort living.  It is punishment.

[Red Arrow]

I just meant that a lot of those guys living in bunks might be there for the duration of their sentences -- which could be anywhere from a year or so up to life.  It would be a different ballgame IMO if you had to live in a gym for a decade or so.

One of the many reasons I behave in a manner which will not result in my being a "guest" at such a place.

[Conan71]

I just meant that a lot of those guys living in bunks might be there for the duration of their sentences -- which could be anywhere from a year or so up to life.  It would be a different ballgame IMO if you had to live in a gym for a decade or so.

Loss of personal liberties is a part of being a criminal if you get caught.

As far as the conditions they are living in- those are far better than the kinds of lock-ups we had when the forefathers wrote "cruel and unusual" into our Constitutional vernacular.  California prisons would be a virtual Hilton to prisoners back then.  No heat, no A/C, poor food, rodents, disease, people held in shackles in cells.  Somehow we try to relate prison lifestyle with life outside the walls.  It shouldn't even come close to comparing.

That said, let's look at what these people are in for.  If it's chronic pot use, forged checks, or shoplifting but they held down a job in the outside world and had committed no other crimes, then it's obvious there's no real reason for these people to be in prison.  There have got to be better alternatives to incarceration for most drug users.

Googling around, I'm finding some startling statistics.  The first being that total inmates in the U.S. was about 500,000 in 1980.  That more than doubled by 1990.  As of 2009, it was nearly 2.3mm.  Only thing I can think of off the top of my head was the war on drugs really ramped up under the Reagan Administration.

Sorry for the Wiki source, but this seems to be a plausible summary, war on drugs and "three strike" laws which have ensnared non-violent offenders:

"Violent crime was not responsible for the quadrupling of the incarcerated population in the United States from 1980 to 2003. Violent crime rates had been relatively constant or declining over those decades. The prison population was increased primarily by public policy changes causing more prison sentences and lengthening time served, e.g. through mandatory minimum sentencing, "three strikes" laws, and reductions in the availability of parole or early release. These policies were championed as protecting the public from serious and violent offenders, but instead yielded high rates of confinement for nonviolent offenders. Nearly three quarters of new admissions to state prison were convicted of nonviolent crimes. Only 49 percent of sentenced state inmates were held for violent offenses. Perhaps the single greatest force behind the growth of the prison population has been the national "war on drugs." The number of incarcerated drug offenders has increased twelvefold since 1980. In 2000, 22 percent of those in federal and state prisons were convicted on drug charges."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States

[Red Arrow]

Loss of personal liberties is a part of being a criminal if you get caught.

It's part of the job description.  The job description also includes the risk of being shot and killed if attempting an armed robbery,  police assisted suicide, and other high risk opportunities.

[we vs us]

They have a bed, electricity, 3 squares a day, clothing, free healthcare, and they are only a threat to each other.  I am also sure that they spend a great deal of time reflecting on the choices that got them there. 

I assume that in many cases the living conditions there are far better than the living conditions they came from, or would return to if released. 

Sure, it's crowded, so what!  The coffins of some of their victims are a bit cramped too, and filled with bugs.

Prison is not supposed to be resort living.  It is punishment.

And, per the supremes, cruel and unusual at that. 

[Gaspar]

And, per the supremes, cruel and unusual at that. 

I exercise my right to disagree with the "suprimes."