Should public schools really be doing this?

[ZYX]

Perhaps. I think this is the young man that is still in school in Bixby. I really do care about the education (and overall well-being) of all children because they live in an environment not of their choosing and they can do little to change it. Our public schools are FAILING our kids, and it pisses me off that my money is feeding that b~tch.

Awwwww, how kind. I really could care less what you think of me. You are entitled to help pay for all children's education because you live in America. And please stop with the constant insults to public schools. There are thousands of hard-working teachers who I am sure can't stand to read that.

[Red Arrow]

I really could care less what you think of me.

How much less?

[ZYX]

How much less?

Ha ha, not much.

[Red Arrow]

Ha ha, not much.

It's just a pet peeve of mine when people say they could care less when they really mean they could NOT care less.

No wonder we have communication problems.  I'll spare you all the rest of the soap box speech.

[guido911]

Awwwww, how kind. I really could care less what you think of me. You are entitled to help pay for all children's education because you live in America. And please stop with the constant insults to public schools. There are thousands of hard-working teachers who I am sure can't stand to read that.

If you want me to treat you like a snot-nosed, high school punk I will happily oblige you. As for the rest of your little rant, please, please tell me what in your teenager life experiences entitles you to criticize any taxpayer who you rely upon for your education.  As for the "hard-working teachers" crap, sorry, I have no sympathy for them after their little temper tantrum in Wisconsin a while back. Remember these pics:







And then there is this wonderful "teacher":

http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2011/04/katherine-windels-charged-in-bomb-threats-against-wisconsin-republicans/

[we vs us]

What "pressure" are you referring to? Oh, that's right, I forgot that you know more about me and my family than I do. And get over your dooshy suggestion that I want to be treated differently than others. If I were like you and others in your place, I would pay the same in taxes. Do you pay the same rate or amount of tax as I do?

Right now, I have to pay to educate my children because our public schools SUCK, as well as pay to educate other people's kids in a SUCKY school system. Now, if you have any suggestions to improve the situation, or if you think that competition in education is a bad thing, I am listening. Otherwise, go troll another thread.

I think competition in public schools sucks.  At least in the way you mean it -- which is to pit different funding models against one another, and have schools "win" or "lose" funding based on their successes/failures. 

And the problem is that, while schools might "win" or "lose" on paper, the ones who take the hit are the students who attend the losing school.  So it will perpetuate inequality and lack of access.  Imagine having a bright child who is stuck at her (for argument's sake) a middle school for 3 years as it slowly loses funding.  Bad choices abound:  yank the kid after 8th grade and cast around for another not-sinking school, or tough it out and risk somehow damaging your kid as the funding dries up? 

In general, "marketizing" parts of our government is a fool's game.  Markets based on competition have all sorts of problems, not least of which is the tendency for success to reinforce itself and crowd out upstarts, but also the disconnect from any other value other than profit -- or in this case, adequate funding.  The only way to value something is to assign a dollar amount to it.  Intrinsic value doesn't exist.  So in a school system that has to value funding, only the things that relate directly to profit (funding) will be emphasized.  Things that aren't related, but might have other value -- either to students or to parents or whatever (I'm thinking band, or literary magazine, or drama club, or chess club, etc) -- wouldn't get funded at all.  On the other hand, events that guarantee actual revenue streams (football anyone?) would be focused on to distraction.

Some things we do because they are right to do.  Not only for social utility, but because they are morally right.  I think that we as Americans have come to believe that public education is one of those moral rights.   

[ZYX]

Okay, now that makes me mad. I will not be called a snot-nosed high school punk. I am one of thirty in my class that was accepted into  Tulsa Tech's pre engineering program. I am not a little punk. I work hard in school, even going in occasionally on Saturdays to study if I really have to. I also am involved in sports. Anybody that knows me will tell you that I am NOT a snot nosed little punk.

Off topic I know, but back on topic. Those teachers are from Wisconsin, not Oklahoma. 95% of teachers that I have encountered in my short "teenager life" are hardworking and would HATE to be considered failures. More of the problem is in administration, not teachers.

If you want me to treat you like a snot-nosed, high school punk I will happily oblige you. As for the rest of your little rant, please, please tell me what in your teenager life experiences entitles you to criticize any taxpayer who you rely upon for your education.  As for the "hard-working teachers" crap, sorry, I have no sympathy for them after their little temper tantrum in Wisconsin a while back. Remember these pics:







And then there is this wonderful "teacher":

http://www.maggiesnotebook.com/2011/04/katherine-windels-charged-in-bomb-threats-against-wisconsin-republicans/

[Hoss]

Okay, now that makes me mad. I will not be called a snot-nosed high school punk. I am one of thirty in my class that was accepted into  Tulsa Tech's pre engineering program. I am not a little punk. I work hard in school, even going in occasionally on Saturdays to study if I really have to. I also am involved in sports. Anybody that knows me will tell you that I am NOT a snot nosed little punk.

Off topic I know, but back on topic. Those teachers are from Wisconsin, not Oklahoma. 95% of teachers that I have encountered in my short "teenager life" are hardworking and would HATE to be considered failures. More of the problem is in administration, not teachers.

Don't let Tony put your off..he's the consummate attention whore/faux victim.

In other words, he's a registered Republican.

[heironymouspasparagus]

guido said;

My wife and I are notorious for throwing nuclear weapons at even the slightest problem, which is why when there was a bump in the education road we hired tutors. We really want the very best for our kids.


Throwing nukes at the school.  Tutors?  Really?  So, if they don't get that whole $30k worth of education, by God, you're gonna get it injected somehow... THAT is pressure!  On the kids!  You are still young, so don't expect you to understand what it does to kids - hopefully you will figure it out before burnout!  That is why I said that I hope and pray they don't!

As far as being treated differently, that is not my suggestion - that is the demand YOU have put forward repeatedly.  Dooshy?  Yep, that's for sure...

Right now, you "have" to pay to educate your children because you perceive there is a lack in the public education system that somehow would hurt the kids.  Well, in the past, there have been many references to growing up somewhat 'deprived', so am presuming that there was no private school in your background.  (Otherwise, there was absolutely NO deprivation - actually, just the opposite!)  If that is true, then your entire success is, by definition, based on the foundations laid by the public school system.  Together with your internal drive and motivation, you used that foundation to make your big bucks.  So, from that standpoint, and by that standard, the public schools are a raging success.


Right now, I have to pay to educate my children because our public schools SUCK, as well as pay to educate other people's kids in a SUCKY school system.


This statement alone shows the elitist mentality that I mention - "why should I have to pay to educate other peoples' kids"?

I'm betting Holland Hall is no better than Jenks, Union, or Broken Arrow (the Big Three in this area).  Those three have the best football teams money can buy, so they gotta be great schools....They have graduation rates in the mid 90%'s when I checked last year.  Does Holland Hall beat that?  (Personal experience as well as friends/family who have gone to HH or were with people who did, lend NO credence to any notion of "superiority" in long term performance.)

But having had a combined total of two kids and two grandkids go through each of them (the big 3, not HH), they do have issues.  The latest kid calls Union "ghetto".  Go figure.  And that one should know, having experienced the "real thing" for years in a medium sized southern Louisiana town.

Here is a review I found on HH from a parent (alledgedly).  Sounds a LOT like what it was when I was in school decades ago.  What goes around comes around...

My child has attended Holland Hall since preschool. However, I feel that if you aren't from Tulsa you simply don't fit in. Everyone is from Tulsa and/or were sorority sisters. Most women have never worked, therefore they spend most of their time gossiping or backstabbing. We are impressed with the academics, but disappointed in the lack of parenting and pretentiousness that surrounds Holland Hall. Therefore, we are seeking a more appropriate environment for our child.



Here is another one;
There is a huge workload, and stress is not uncommon, but the college prep received is incredible. It is not the right school for everyone, but for the right students, Holland Hall is an incredible place.

 
Sounds like pressure to me.

And LaCrosse??  I mean...damn...(said in the same tone as Will Smith in Men in Black.)

And I second it, ZYX, don't let him get under your skin.  His "entitlement attitude" is the first thing you get to see in the morning, and the last thing at night.  He's entitled because he is special.  As detailed here and many other places within the posts.

[guido911]

I think competition in public schools sucks.  At least in the way you mean it -- which is to pit different funding models against one another, and have schools "win" or "lose" funding based on their successes/failures. 

Thank you for actually making an argument here rather than rant. My position on vouchers is not about different funding models or about competition in public schools. In my opinion, healthy competition is always a good thing and if private schools can do a job better educating our children than public schools (which they generally do), then why throw up walls to stop poorer kids from accessing them? Is the separation of church and state canard so sacrosanct (in some cases) that we are willing to to sacrifice them in favor of preserving public schools? Right now we have a disgusting public school system that is plainly not working. I want to read posts that posit changes/alternatives please...

[guido911]

Okay, now that makes me mad. I will not be called a snot-nosed high school punk.

Then don't act like one. Oh, and I don't care if you are mad or not. Seriously, you slap at me over my caring about children then you whine like one? And a hint, when the forum cop is on your side, you should rethink your position.

[guido911]

And I second it, ZYX, don't let him get under your skin.  His "entitlement attitude" is the first thing you get to see in the morning, and the last thing at night.  He's entitled because he is special.  As detailed here and many other places within the posts.

I have an entitlement attitude? Seriously, what in your bong-inspired mind leads you to believe I have espoused that I am entitled to something/anything? Tell me. As for the rest of your post, have you or your children attended HH?

[ZYX]

Private schools are fantastic. The one that I used to go to (Riverfield) is very hands on. Worksheets are rarely used. Long recesses, frequent fieldtrips, and many hands on projects make learning fun and more effective. I believe this would help public schools tremendously. Public schools are too traditional. More "out there" methods of learning would be much more effective in my opinion.

[Hoss]

Then don't act like one. Oh, and I don't care if you are mad or not. Seriously, you slap at me over my caring about children then you whine like one? And a hint, when the forum cop is on your side, you should rethink your position.

Three responses in 10 minutes.  Attention whore.  I rest my case.

PS:  I don't see many coming to your aid...Gweed

[heironymouspasparagus]

Oh, no...I guess it's true...the public schools are an abject failure...guido can't read!  I specifically said the big 3, not HH at one point.  And friends/family at another.  I guess I will just have to keep the posts shorter, so there is no loss of attention span.


Hoss,
Again, you guys are leaving me out!!  I wanna be an attention whore, too!!
Are you the forum cop he is talking about??