Stagflation Nation

[heironymouspasparagus]

Red,
Very glad to see you understand the reality of tax paying units.

guido still doesn't get it.  No matter how many times it is explained to him.  But that is what the hypnotic power of Republicontin will do to a person.  Reality just fades away and apparently never returns.

Minimum wage?  So who didn't??  I too thought I started with nothing, then found out that SWMBO started out with much less, too.  (We must be twinkies...er, uh, twins...)  You haven't lived until Christmas present consisted of a stick of gum.  NOT a pack - ONE stick.  But they did have a good solid house (very small!) that Dad built himself - literally from scratch.  Cut logs, milled, nailed together, etc.

Ok, so who has the next great "how poor I was" story??  With extreme richness today, of course.

Yeah, the poorest among us DO pay taxes.  At a vastly disproportionate amount to even the lower middle class among us.  (Does advanced degree erase all mathematical ability?)

[guido911]

Only $4.5 Billion.  That's not worth worrying about.  Send it to me and I'll make sure it gets put to good use. 

I know you would. Bless you.

[Red Arrow]

Obumma releases 30 mill bo from the strategic reserve? This will not help but the stuff my be getting clumpy lying in storage..... 

It's getting close to its "Best if used by date".

[Conan71]

Asking the top 0.1% or even top 1% for a couple of percent more is not "soaking the rich". They'll still be high and dry, what with the removal of much income to capital gains over the last 30 years and the drastic decreases in tax rates for the top income earners since 1950. I would buy that argument if anyone were talking about returning to even Carter-era tax rates, which were already low by the standards of the earlier 20th century.

There was a massive shift in the tax burden to the lower income brackets when the deal on Social Security was made in the 80s allowing the payroll taxes to go to the general fund, increasing the payroll tax, and lowering further the tax rates on upper income earners. Moving tax policy slightly in the other direction is not soaking the rich.

You missed my point entirely.  It's President Obama's own message which has created the perception.

Every time President Obama has opened his mouth about higher taxes for the 1%'ers it's always been in the context of one of the following: "They aren't contributing their fair share".  "They make more so they can afford to be taxed more." "They are enjoying tax breaks on the backs of the working poor." Or VP BiteMe: "It's their patriotic duty."

I'm loosely paraphrasing of course.  What about comments like those doesn't sound like wealth envy, income redistribution, or that higher taxes aren't punitive?

[Conan71]

Senate GOP Leader Mitch McConnell stated, his number one goal is to ensure that Obama is a "one term president". Instead of focusing on job creation that would benefit the country, the GOP has changed the subject to the debt and the deficit seemingly unaware, or maybe perfectly aware, that jobs will improve both the deficit and the debt situation. So thanks GOP! Thanks for NO JOBS, NO MEDICARE, NO SOCIAL SECURITY and NO HOPE! Just remember, karma has a way off biting one in the a$$ and yours, Conan  and Guido, are plenty big enough for a big bite!

Ease up there Assclown.

[Teatownclown]

Ease up there Assclown.

I am sorry.Please don't take it personally, Dreamer   er...loose paraphraser....er...Conan.  I must have had some alcohol when I posted that.

Back on topic: http://www.onepennysheet.com./2011/06/the-coming-upheaval-in-republican-economics/ (cut and paste link)

"What's the coming alternative to free-market-centered economics?  Economic nationalism.

This means, for a start, turning away from the post-1948 Republican party's embrace of free trade and returning to the party's traditional protectionism.

Beyond this, it also means turning away from the private-sector-only model of economic growth and back to what Abraham Lincoln would have called "internal improvements," a term that embraced everything from subsidized railroads to the land-grant colleges that were the technical backbone of the American heartland for a century."

[Cats Cats Cats]

You missed my point entirely.  It's President Obama's own message which has created the perception.

Every time President Obama has opened his mouth about higher taxes for the 1%'ers it's always been in the context of one of the following: "They aren't contributing their fair share".  "They make more so they can afford to be taxed more." "They are enjoying tax breaks on the backs of the working poor." Or VP BiteMe: "It's their patriotic duty."

This is true

[Teatownclown]

[nathanm]

You missed my point entirely.  It's President Obama's own message which has created the perception.

Every time President Obama has opened his mouth about higher taxes for the 1%'ers it's always been in the context of one of the following: "They aren't contributing their fair share".  "They make more so they can afford to be taxed more." "They are enjoying tax breaks on the backs of the working poor." Or VP BiteMe: "It's their patriotic duty."

I'm loosely paraphrasing of course.  What about comments like those doesn't sound like wealth envy, income redistribution, or that higher taxes aren't punitive?

The ironic thing is that certain of the wealthy and even middle class seem to have some class envy for the welfare queens. That's not class warfare, though, that's just smile rolling downhill. 

[Gaspar]

The ironic thing is that certain of the wealthy and even middle class seem to have some class envy for the welfare queens. That's not class warfare, though, that's just smile rolling downhill. 

No. . .It's not envy, it's anger.  The same anger you feel when someone steals from you.

[nathanm]

No. . .It's not envy, it's anger.  The same anger you feel when someone steals from you.

So that's what you call increasing the payroll tax so the income tax could be lowered..theft.

[guido911]

So that's what you call increasing the payroll tax so the income tax could be lowered..theft.

I hadn't heard that the rich were not paying the higher payroll taxes until now. Thanks for the update.

[nathanm]

I hadn't heard that the rich were not paying the higher payroll taxes until now. Thanks for the update.

You weren't aware that there's an income limit on the Social Security component? That surprises me.

I take it you also weren't aware that a large cohort of the top 10% also has significant income not subject to payroll tax, since FICA only applies to wage income?

[guido911]

You weren't aware that there's an income limit on the Social Security component? That surprises me.

I take it you also weren't aware that a large cohort of the top 10% also has significant income not subject to payroll tax, since FICA only applies to wage income?

Oh I know about the limit. Should there be no limit because I always thought social security was not a pension plan. If it were, I would love to get every dollar back that I put in plus what the government contributes to my plan.

Why are so damned worried about what other people earn anyway. Just live your life and mind your business. The rich are already paying far more than you, and in some cases they pay more in one year than you will over your lifetime. The only conclusion I have over your obsession with the "rich" is, I'm sorry, wealth envy.

[Gaspar]

You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift.
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
You cannot help the wage-earner by tearing down the wage-payer.
You cannot further the brotherhood of mankind by encouraging class hatred.
You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot establish sound security on borrowed money.
You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative.
You cannot help man permanently by doing for them what they could do and should do for themselves.

The standard of living of the common man is higher in those countries which have the greatest number of wealthy entrepreneurs. – Ludwig von Mises

The root source of wealth is human ingenuity. This has no known bounds, so the amount of wealth in existence can always be increased. That's why capitalism is called "making money". – Marc Geddes

Collectivism doesn't work because it's based on a faulty economic premise. There is no such thing as a person's "fair share" of wealth. The gross national product is not a pizza that must be carefully divided because if I get too many slices, you have to eat the box. The economy is expandable and, in any practical sense, limitless. – P. J. O'Rourke, "How to Explain Conservatism"