Stagflation Nation

[nathanm]

The only conclusion I have over your obsession with the "rich" is, I'm sorry, wealth envy.

I didn't bring it up, bud.

And my "obsession?" Maybe you don't like it, but tax policy is inseparable from income. As I keep pointing out, the bottom half of income earners don't make enough collectively to cover the deficit, much less the budget. Knowing that is important to figuring out how to pay for what we use.

Regardless, you and Gaspar both have a blatantly obvious double standard on this. Not surprising..most people have a double standard when it comes to themselves. Personally, I have repeatedly advocated my income cohort bearing part of the burden of any tax increase deemed necessary. I don't think families who make a quarter what mine does should share in that burden, given that they already don't have enough to get by no matter how frugally they live. (well, unless they go all Ted Kaczynski in their living arrangements)

Leaving them with a little extra money in their pockets might just give them the help they need to raise themselves up out of poverty.

[Gaspar]

Taxing individuals by a percentage of their earning is fair an equatable.

As long as their are people capable of obtaining wealth, and poor people with open hands, there will be liberal people with open mouths.

If the top tax rate was 90% and the innovators found a way to maintain and grow their wealth, the liberals would demand 95%, and the poor would still remain poor.

Poverty is not an economic state, it is a psychological one.

This is an old song

When you subsidize poverty and failure, you get more of both. – James Dale Davidson

The government's War on Poverty has transformed poverty from a short-term misfortune into a career choice. – Harry Browne

Capitalism has created the highest standard of living ever known on earth. The evidence is incontrovertible. The contrast between West and East Berlin is the latest demonstration, like a laboratory experiment for all to see. Yet those who are loudest in proclaiming their desire to eliminate poverty are loudest in denouncing capitalism. Man's well-being is not their goal. – Ayn Rand, Theory and Practice

[nathanm]

Yep, every single poor person is just lazy. They didn't have some bad luck in business, didn't get sick and not have insurance, didn't have a tornado blow down their house. Didn't end up disabled because of poor working conditions. It's all because they're lazy.

[Red Arrow]

You weren't aware that there's an income limit on the Social Security component? That surprises me.

I take it you also weren't aware that a large cohort of the top 10% also has significant income not subject to payroll tax, since FICA only applies to wage income?

You weren't aware that maximum SS benefits are based on an upper limit, presently around $106,000?  That surprises me.  Why should someone making $212,000 pay twice as much for the same benefit as someone making just at $106,000.   (You know I don't buy into the "because they can afford it" philosophy.)

[nathanm]

You weren't aware that maximum SS benefits are based on an upper limit, presently around $106,000?  That surprises me.  Why should someone making $212,000 pay twice as much for the same benefit as someone making just at $106,000.   (You know I don't buy into the "because they can afford it" philosophy.)

That's not germane to my point. My point is that the usual suspects constantly complain about class warfare when it's the 'po folk complaining, but are constantly on their own crusade. One of their successful campaigns was to get the payroll tax increased in the 80s so that income taxes could be reduced, which disproportionately helped the wealthy thanks to the payroll tax cap. Why it's there or whether it should be there isn't relevant, only that it is.

[Gaspar]

Yep, every single poor person is just lazy. They didn't have some bad luck in business, didn't get sick and not have insurance, didn't have a tornado blow down their house. Didn't end up disabled because of poor working conditions. It's all because they're lazy.

Second stanza of the same song.  No one used the word lazy except you.  No one even implied it.

Poverty is a temporary state in a free society.  Prolonged poverty is a result of continuing to make choices that perpetuate that state.  

Good by!  Have a great weekend.  I'm going to St. Louis, where I used to live when I was poor.

[Red Arrow]

Why it's there or whether it should be there isn't relevant, only that it is.

I think it's very relevant.  Unlike the general fund (at least it's supposed to be this way), you are paying for a specific benefit with a defined return.

[Breadburner]

Most welfare folks have done a fine job of making it a "lifestyle".....

[guido911]

Most welfare folks have done a fine job of making it a "lifestyle".....

You got that right. Your post conjured up a memory I had about this woman.

http://michellemalkin.com/2007/12/22/the-shut-up-white-boy-woman-is-the-slum-dweller-with-a-60-inch-tv/

[guido911]

That's not germane to my point. My point is that the usual suspects constantly complain about class warfare when it's the 'po folk complaining, but are constantly on their own crusade. One of their successful campaigns was to get the payroll tax increased in the 80s so that income taxes could be reduced, which disproportionately helped the wealthy thanks to the payroll tax cap. Why it's there or whether it should be there isn't relevant, only that it is.

I am engaging in "class warfare" because I think I pay enough in taxes?



And what crusade am I on? The one where I get to choose how I spend MY money? Or the one where I want to keep more of the money I earn as a result of hard work and sacrifice? Or is it the one where I feel that everyone should have some skin in the game as Obama once said?

And about the "po' folk" complaining, what do they have to complain about? They are not paying federal income tax, and are literally living off the tax payers. Here comes the "but..but...they pay payroll taxes". Gee whiz, they actually have to pay for benefits they either receive or will receive--just like the rest of us. Personally, the last people we should be hearing from on tax policy are people who pay none.

[nathanm]

Did you even read my post? Agitating for change in the distribution of the tax burden is either class warfare or it is not. You can't have it both ways.

[guido911]

Did you even read my post? Agitating for change in the distribution of the tax burden is either class warfare or it is not. You can't have it both ways.

Your post was an attack on the rich AGAIN. Period. And not wanting to pay more taxes is not "class warfare". I do not know where you got that idea, other than a pathetic attempt to establish some double standard that is no where to be found. Also, did you even read my response? Wanting all Americans pay something before we start talking about raising taxes on anyone is not class warfare.

There are several lefty posters in here that may share your view on taxing the rich to deal with the budget shortfall. You, on the other hand, have taken it to a whole other level.

[RecycleMichael]

I had no idea that there would be a fight between posters both claiming the other was engaging in class warfare.

I am either confused or I have no class.

[guido911]

I am either confused or I have no class.

Go with the latter. 

[nathanm]

Your post was an attack on the rich AGAIN. Period. And not wanting to pay more taxes is not "class warfare". I do not know where you got that idea, other than a pathetic attempt to establish some double standard that is no where to be found. Also, did you even read my response? Wanting all Americans pay something before we start talking about raising taxes on anyone is not class warfare.

There are several lefty posters in here that may share your view on taxing the rich to deal with the budget shortfall. You, on the other hand, have taken it to a whole other level.

So you once again assert that you wanting someone else to pay more tax isn't class warfare, but someone else wanting you to pay more tax is class warfare? That may be the most impressive feat of mental gymnastics I've seen this month. I also fail to see how I've "taken it to a whole other level" when the only thing I've done is point out the hypocrisy inherent in your statement.

If you are engaging in the same behavior as someone else, don't be offended when your description of that other person or group's behavior is applied to you.