Debt Debate in Congress

[Townsend]

I think he's channeling shadows...

Sounded like something was coming out of his channel

[JCnOwasso]

You are correct.  They have proven their steel, and will continue to add that pressure to every upcoming debate.  

The dragon is now missing a scale, and until there is a popular progressive movement that can provide a compelling philosophy, the Tea Party will continue to go for the beast's heart.

Once we achieve a period of prosperity again like the early 00s, the pendulum will swing and the liberal advance will be attractive again.

It's just too hard to sell spending right now, and I must admit, that makes me happy.

What period of prosperity are you speaking of?  The one that directly led to the complete collapse of the worldwide economy?  The one that turned a blind eye to the banking industry and it's irresponsible lending practices?  Less oversight by Government really did great things for us then, didn't it?  
Are you one of those who believe the economy didn't really break in 08?  I respect the tea party agenda, but I cannot respect their practices.  I have a feeling that they believe that the US is "too big too fail".  I am not one of those who wants to test those waters.  

[heironymouspasparagus]

Wevus, I'd feel a whole lot better about it if it were more than smoke and mirrors.  I don't want anyone using what should be common sense for gains in the next election.  I'm sick and freaking tired of the end game being which party wields the power instead of doing right by the American public.

I'm really shocked that a balanced budget amendment seems to be about as popular as a fart in church.

A lot of truth there.

Balanced budget?  Well, the Dummycrats don't want it because they know it is a stupid idea for times like WWII, etc.  The Republicontins don't want it because they have been spending like drunken sailors for 30 years and it would cramp their style - we couldn't do our little military voyeurism thing like we have been doing.

[Conan71]

A lot of truth there.

Balanced budget?  Well, the Dummycrats don't want it because they know it is a stupid idea for times like WWII, etc.  The Republicontins don't want it because they have been spending like drunken sailors for 30 years and it would cramp their style - we couldn't do our little military voyeurism thing like we have been doing.

Democrats might want to consider that Iraq might not have happened if we'd have had some sort of cap in place or at least required a provision for raising revenues (like reversing the Bush tax cuts) prior to plunging the country deeper into debt for a new war front.

You can have a balanced budget amendment which comes with some sort of rainy day clause which would only be allowed if certain triggers were set.

[heironymouspasparagus]

You CAN have that, but does anyone believe it would actually be written like that?  I don't.

With all the other rationalizations, lies, and breaking of law surrounding the Iraq war, a little thing like a rainy day clause would be small potatoes.


This would end up kind of like the flat tax or the VAT tax plans.  They would end up being "in addition to" unless the 16th amendment were repealed FIRST.

[we vs us]

I've heard a BBA+exit hatch idea floated before but don't understand why.  Doesn't that take away the whole reasoning behind a BBA?  

I mean, if you want to tie Congress's hands, tie their hands.  Giving them an out just deflates the cause.

EDIT:  FWIW, I wonder the same thing about the Fair Tax proposal.  If we're trying to make our tax system simpler, why introduce an entirely new scheme with its own set of deductions?  Both of these things seem like tortured workarounds to our existing systems.

[heironymouspasparagus]

It's all just propaganda and BS.  Right up until election day, 1980, the only thing you heard out of the right wing mouthpieces was BBA.  (Like todays version - tax cuts.)  The instant Reagan won, that disappeared instantly.  And the BIG spending really started!!  With big tax cuts for the rich!  Just like 2001 all over again.

[Conan71]

You CAN have that, but does anyone believe it would actually be written like that?  I don't.

With all the other rationalizations, lies, and breaking of law surrounding the Iraq war, a little thing like a rainy day clause would be small potatoes.


This would end up kind of like the flat tax or the VAT tax plans.  They would end up being "in addition to" unless the 16th amendment were repealed FIRST.

It's time to quit saying "we can't" when it comes to POTUS and Congress.  It's our country, damn it, and they need to start listening.

[Teatownclown]

Welcome to the Era of Extortion Politics

http://www.pensitoreview.com/2011/08/01/welcome-to-the-era-of-extortion-politics/


"In the debt-ceiling hostage fiction, Republicans are the hostage takers — the extortionists — while the U.S. economy and the financial well-being of American families are their victims. The hostage negotiator, of course, the would-be hero in the piece, is Pres. Obama."


"The correct response here was to refuse to negotiate. Obama simply needed to say, we're raising the debt ceiling the way we always have, because the alternative is catastrophe. We can negotiate any policy change you want, but not with a gun to the head of the American economy."
- Jonathan Chait


"At worst, if Obama allows the economic terrorists to continue to win, future presidents of both parties will find themselves routinely negotiating with opposition-party extortionists in one bogus crisis after another."

Sounds nice and simple. But read the numbers.

[Conan71]

So what's the lesson here?  POTUS Obama gets to keep spending carelessly, without any real sort of budget framework, and he can continue to blame everyone else for his kleptomania.

BTW- my dyslexsia makes me trip over the name of the link you posted: pensitoreview 

[guido911]

BTW- my dyslexsia makes me trip over the name of the link you posted: pensitoreview 

Mine, too.

[Teatownclown]

So, neither of you take issue with extortion? Figgers.

[nathanm]

You are correct.  They have proven their steel

What? The Tea Party's whole thing was either a BBA or no increase. The only thing they got was no revenues. Dems got defense cuts and enough room to last into 2013. I guess it's a win for the Tea Partyists (presuming none of them do anything stupid) in that the Democrats didn't rip off their heads and smile down their throats as it was looking like they might early in the weekend.

McConnell saved their donkey by crossing the Rubicon and filibustering a freakin' debt ceiling deal. A deal that sounds oddly similar to the one presently on the table.

[Teatownclown]

What? The Tea Party's whole thing was either a BBA or no increase. The only thing they got was no revenues. Dems got defense cuts and enough room to last into 2013.

Remember, "winners do not compromise" Rush Limbaugh!

Guess that makes the TeabaggersGOP losers. Poor Rush.

[guido911]

So, neither of you take issue with extortion? Figgers.

Nope. I treated your link source with the same care as it's content. Where do you find crap like that? And on the subject of Congressional conduct, where in the hell were you when the House was passing bills so we could see what was in them? Or on Obama at the get go telling the Repubs that he "won" went it came to discussing tax policy? Just shove your phony BS up the orifice of your choosing @ssclown.

I have been watching the House debate on this bill. I was impressed with Georgia Dem David Scott and his railing on getting people back to work.