Debt Debate in Congress

[guido911]

What? The Tea Party's whole thing was either a BBA or no increase. The only thing they got was no revenues. Dems got defense cuts and enough room to last into 2013. I guess it's a win for the Tea Partyists (presuming none of them do anything stupid) in that the Democrats didn't rip off their heads and smile down their throats as it was looking like they might early in the weekend.

McConnell saved their donkey by crossing the Rubicon and filibustering a freakin' debt ceiling deal. A deal that sounds oddly similar to the one presently on the table.

Wrong again Nate. One of the tea party's core principles was reigning in federal spending and no new taxes.
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/mission.aspx

This debt bill deal is precisely that. No new taxes and spending is reigned in. Is it everything the tea party wanted? No. But the bill is at least consistent. In addition, there will be a vote on a balanced budget amendment, which the Senate over the past weeks wanted no part of. Before this bill, you had Boehner's CCB and BBA bills the House approved and the Senate spiked without even taking debate. Now, where is the Senate's voted-on plan? There is none. In fact, after punting Boehner's second bill, Reid put out his own bill, which the Senate Rs wanted to vote on immediately. Reid would have none of that.

As for the deal, tell me how this bill is similar to Reid's bill?

Finally, I wrote elsewhere essentially that now is not the time for awarding winners and losers, which you think is important. I prefer to look forward, like Scott (D-GA) said today, and get people jobs.

[Gaspar]

So what's the lesson here?  POTUS Obama gets to keep spending carelessly, without any real sort of budget framework, and he can continue to blame everyone else for his kleptomania.

BTW- my dyslexsia makes me trip over the name of the link you posted: pensitoreview 

It's like we just had an intervention and the addict decided not to get on the plane to Palm Harbor for rehab.

We know he will probably continue shoot up, and his dysfunctional family will continue to support him, but at least now, everyone is aware that he is an addict, and unwilling to embrace hope or change.

Sure this thing was political kabuki theater, but it was also the first time the public at large has been this vocal or active in a debt ceiling debate.  Everyone is now watching, and the moment the addict begins to shoot up again, the family will kick him out!

[we vs us]

Finally, I wrote elsewhere essentially that now is not the time for awarding winners and losers, which you think is important. I prefer to look forward, like Scott (D-GA) said today, and get people jobs.

I'm gonna suggest you cool your heels, then, because by focusing on austerity we're guaranteeing ourselves an even longer and slower fight for more jobs than we're fighting now. It's pretty obvious that we're entering our own Lost Decade at this point (and may already be a couple of years in, when it's all said and done).  

[nathanm]

Wrong again Nate. One of the tea party's core principles was reigning in federal spending and no new taxes.
http://www.teapartypatriots.org/mission.aspx

This debt bill deal is precisely that. No new taxes and spending is reigned in. Is it everything the tea party wanted? No. But the bill is at least consistent. In addition, there will be a vote on a balanced budget amendment, which the Senate over the past weeks wanted no part of. Before this bill, you had Boehner's CCB and BBA bills the House approved and the Senate spiked without even taking debate. Now, where is the Senate's voted-on plan? There is none. In fact, after punting Boehner's second bill, Reid put out his own bill, which the Senate Rs wanted to vote on immediately. Reid would have none of that.

As for the deal, tell me how this bill is similar to Reid's bill?

Finally, I wrote elsewhere essentially that now is not the time for awarding winners and losers, which you think is important. I prefer to look forward, like Scott (D-GA) said today, and get people jobs.

Reid's bill was spending cuts with no new revenues and no BBA. The Tea Party managed to get the wonderful addition of a debt reduction committee with enforcement mechanisms that aren't painful to Democrats in the least. And that immediate vote? It wasn't a straight up or down vote, it was a cloture vote that McConnell wanted immediately. That is 60, rather than 50 votes.

And yeah, the Senate tabled Boehner's bills, with bipartisan support no less. 59 votes against.

I agree that jobs are more important, but that's clearly not a priority for anybody in the spending cuts brigade. (this includes many Democrats as well as the know-nothing Tea Partyists)

Of course, all this might be moot in a few hours anyway depending on how nutty the Tea Partyists and their sympathizers decide to be.

Gaspar, you are so freakin' out to lunch. The Republicans are polling like smile on this issue.

[Gaspar]

Reid's bill was spending cuts with no new revenues and no BBA. The Tea Party managed to get the wonderful addition of a debt reduction committee with enforcement mechanisms that aren't painful to Democrats in the least. And that immediate vote? It wasn't a straight up or down vote, it was a cloture vote that McConnell wanted immediately. That is 60, rather than 50 votes.

And yeah, the Senate tabled Boehner's bills, with bipartisan support no less. 59 votes against.

I agree that jobs are more important, but that's clearly not a priority for anybody in the spending cuts brigade. (this includes many Democrats as well as the know-nothing Tea Partyists)

Of course, all this might be moot in a few hours anyway depending on how nutty the Tea Partyists and their sympathizers decide to be.

Gaspar, you are so freakin' out to lunch. The Republicans are polling like smile on this issue.

Yes!  I love it.  Everyone is trying to identify a winner (Democrat or Republican or administration).  They are looking in the wrong place.

Most of the cuts don't take place until 2014, and they aren't really cuts anyway, they are limits on spending increases.

The balance budget part of the bill will be stripped.  The committee will be stripped of it's teeth and end up just like President Obama's last debt reduction committee, and all recommendations will be ignored. The can will be kicked down the road past the election. . . and unlike other debt debates in congress this one will become a whole chapter in the history books, as will the spending against the increase that the administration will immediately embrace under the guise of yet another new crisis.

So who won?  Well, the Tea Party won.  They proved that empowering congress to address a debt problem is like giving gang-bangers machine guns, and telling them to go fight crime.

By the time this thing is out of committee (if it makes it there) it too will be a pile, but this time everyone will know what they are eating.

[guido911]

I'm gonna suggest you cool your heels, then, because by focusing on austerity we're guaranteeing ourselves an even longer and slower fight for more jobs than we're fighting now. It's pretty obvious that we're entering our own Lost Decade at this point (and may already be a couple of years in, when it's all said and done).  

By austerity, do you mean limiting federal discretionary spending? Because this is partly what the bi-partisan debt deal addresses. Because when I think or austerity, Greece comes to mind. This is a summary and effect of its austerity program:

ATHENS, Greece -- Greece fended off a bankruptcy that threatened to roil global financial markets, approving severe spending cuts and tax increases Wednesday in the face of violent protests by Greeks who say they have suffered enough.

The package of austerity measures would keep bailout money flowing to Greece from other European countries and the International Monetary Fund. It would free $17 billion in fresh loans, although the money will only be enough to see the nation through September.

Investors around the world cheered the news, but protesters, fighting tear gas, hurled whatever they could find at riot police and tried to blockade the Parliament building...

Parliament approved $40 billion in tax increases and spending cuts, and privatization of public services to raise $71 billion more, all through 2015. Greece's overall economic output is about $330 billion, or roughly the size of Washington state's.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/29/greece-austerity-bill-greek_n_886760.html

[Conan71]

Actually it's got nothing to do with how Republicans are polling on this.  It's all about how it was 4th & goal and they punted.  Everyone is too afraid of the consequences of the 2012 election to take a real leadership position on this so they cobbled together something which would result in the least bloodshed for all parties.  The President has shown precious little leadership on this, much like he left it up to his minions in Congress to cobble together a shitpile they call Obamacare.

He's a master though at allowing Congress to constantly look like a bunch of bad guys via his abdication of power and responsibility.  Clever politician, crummy leader.

[nathanm]

Most of the cuts don't take place until 2014, and they aren't really cuts anyway, they are limits on spending increases.
...
The balance budget part of the bill will be stripped.  The committee will be stripped of it's teeth and end up just like President Obama's last debt reduction committee, and all recommendations will be ignored. The can will be kicked down the road past the election. . . and unlike other debt debates in congress this one will become a whole chapter in the history books, as will the spending against the increase that the administration will immediately embrace under the guise of yet another new crisis.

Still haven't come back from lunch, I see. The Pentagon is getting $350 billion cut over the next 10 years, not including the savings from ending the wars. If the deficit committee doesn't produce or their recommendations aren't put to a vote, we get another gigantic cut to the military, plus some adjustments in Medicare and an almost across-the-board cut in everything else.

If you hadn't noted, everything Washington does is relative to the CBO baseline. If we're projected to spend $400 billion on something over the next 10 years under current law and we decide we're only going to spend $100 billion over 10 years, that's $300 billion in savings relative to previous law whether you like it or not.

[Conan71]

Still haven't come back from lunch, I see. The Pentagon is getting $350 billion cut over the next 10 years, not including the savings from ending the wars. If the deficit committee doesn't produce or their recommendations aren't put to a vote, we get another gigantic cut to the military, plus some adjustments in Medicare and an almost across-the-board cut in everything else.

If you hadn't noted, everything Washington does is relative to the CBO baseline. If we're projected to spend $400 billion on something over the next 10 years under current law and we decide we're only going to spend $100 billion over 10 years, that's $300 billion in savings relative to previous law whether you like it or not.

In other words, cuts on increases as the man said, or are you going to play a two day word parsing game again?

[guido911]

Here's the media weighing in on the debt deal. Note what Norah says near the end.

[nathanm]

In other words, cuts on increases as the man said, or are you going to play a two day word parsing game again?

No, cuts on planned spending, not increases. It's like you don't understand budgeting.

[guido911]

If you hadn't noted, everything Washington does is relative to the CBO baseline. If we're projected to spend $400 billion on something over the next 10 years under current law and we decide we're only going to spend $100 billion over 10 years, that's $300 billion in savings relative to previous law whether you like it or not.

Paul Ryan skullfarks your point:

[nathanm]

Next time, try something on point.

[Breadburner]

Next time, try something on point.

Why should he...You never have.....

[nathanm]

Why should he...You never have.....

That's a gas, coming from you.