No BS Question

[guido911]

Pacific Heights
French Quarter
The Garden District
Uptown
The Financial District
Height Ashbury
SoHo
The pearl District (Portland)
Wrigleyville
Power and Light District
The River walk

That about sums up my point about wannabeism. I just see this when I read about districts: "'Scuse me, I need to go to the Brady arts district tonight".

[heironymouspasparagus]

It's a marketing propaganda thing.  Caters to our inborn desires to gather into "social groups" - be part of something bigger than themselves.

[cannon_fodder]

Who could argue with a straight face that the Blue Dome District is pretenscious?  And I'd say the garden district isn't very pretenscious when you get down to it.  Let's kill "avenue" from street signs because it sounds upity.

Move along...

[guido911]

It's a marketing propaganda thing.  Caters to our inborn desires to gather into "social groups" - be part of something bigger than themselves.

I am sure there are numerous reasons for it, all of them fine. It's just funny to me that these places are mostly in a one square mile area, that's all. With that said, and in the spirit of inclusiveness so that each of us can have a sense of belonging and we can enjoy living in/supporting districts, let's name some new ones.

21st & Yale area--  "Bell's Was Once Here" District

15th Street between Utica and Lewis--"Too many damned law offices in older buildings" district

[TulsaRufnex]

Your welcome to come as my guest to one of the Deco District meetings.  You won't hear anyone talking about islands in the river or the Olympics coming to Tulsa and doubt that if there were a show of hands that anyone there would have wanted them or voted for either.  Most of us aren't new urban activists or "monied oil" either.  

I don't mind big box stores at all and wouldn't  at all mind more downtown.

I don't want to come, and I shouldn't need to be there.  Say the word "WalMart" at one of your meetings, then count all the turned up noses.
Propose a soccer stadium inside the IDL, and watch how many people act like NIMBYs for an area in which they don't live.
I've been a WalMart customer for decades, but wouldn't threaten to move to another city just because a downtown Target or Costco is built next door to the big box Home Depot.
Yet that is what I heard from many Tulsans when it looked like a WalMart would be built downtown.
I've always considered WalMart as the home team-- Bentonville is closer to Tulsa than it is to Little Rock.
And I've heard people in Tulsa talk about Wallyworld as if a dingo would steal their baby if they ever shopped there.

[TulsaRufnex]

I am sure there are numerous reasons for it, all of them fine. It's just funny to me that these places are mostly in a one square mile area, that's all. With that said, and in the spirit of inclusiveness so that each of us can have a sense of belonging and we can enjoy living in/supporting districts, let's name some new ones.

21st & Yale area--  "Bell's Was Once Here" District

15th Street between Utica and Lewis--"Too many damned law offices in older buildings" district

I'm not sure I follow your singular fascination with the word district.
21st & Yale and 15th between Utica and Lewis have existing residential neighborhoods directly around them, all with their own names, thus no reason to proclaim either area a "district."

I call it "The Brady District" mainly to differentiate it from a residential neighborhood a few blocks north of there called Brady Heights-- they are very different.
I guess I could say "I'm going to Brady Street" but many of the businesses in that area are not actually located on Brady St.
If I say "I'm going to The Brady," I could be referring to the Brady Theater or... well... maybe we should just change its nickname to Bradyville to suit you?
And it's not all that uncommon to call a traditional arts area a district... this is OKC's: http://www.thepaseo.com/  ...and it's been referred to as an "arts district" for about as long as I can remember...
These days, I find it ironic that the "Brady Arts District" is, in reality, the home of lawyers and young professionals who buy art, not the creative types who make it.

[TheArtist]

That about sums up my point about wannabeism. I just see this when I read about districts: "'Scuse me, I need to go to the Brady arts district tonight".

Sums up my growing assumption that you must be insecure, insular, and a mean person who wants to gripe about things that don't exist anywhere but in your own deranged mind lol.   So fine, you don't like "districts" and won't go to them lol.  Thank Goodness! 

[carltonplace]

Jenks America District

[TheArtist]

I don't want to come, and I shouldn't need to be there.  Say the word "WalMart" at one of your meetings, then count all the turned up noses.
Propose a soccer stadium inside the IDL, and watch how many people act like NIMBYs for an area in which they don't live.
I've been a WalMart customer for decades, but wouldn't threaten to move to another city just because a downtown Target or Costco is built next door to the big box Home Depot.
Yet that is what I heard from many Tulsans when it looked like a WalMart would be built downtown.
I've always considered WalMart as the home team-- Bentonville is closer to Tulsa than it is to Little Rock.
And I've heard people in Tulsa talk about Wallyworld as if a dingo would steal their baby if they ever shopped there.

You definitely have no idea of the kind of people who are at our meetings.  There would not be any turned up noses or opposition to a soccer stadium (especially if it were one that was designed to fit into an urban area).

"Yet that is what I heard from many Tulsans when it looked like a WalMart would be built downtown."

So what!? lol

Compare that to the endless, non stop barrage of people who say they hate downtown, or even Tulsa itself, etc. and what your talking about becomes minuscule to the point of being non existent.

But you do bring up a good point and I think I understand where a lot of your frustration comes from.  

I was thinking about this the other day and it occurred to me that a lot of our problems in relation to this subject come from... Fear.

The Wal-Mart thing and Soccer Stadium both have the same problem for many people.

Here is the deal, here is the context for many.  A lot of people would really like for there to be some good quality urban living in our city for they and their friends, family etc. to live in if they so choose.  We have good suburban living for people that want that, but no good urban living for people who want that.

AND

We also do not have good zoning that would help create good urban areas.  

This then leads to the fear.

A. We want something desperately that we do not have.
B. There is no zoning to help create it.
C. An idea like a soccer stadium or Wal-Mart comes along and is seen as yet another likely impediment to creating that good urban environment.

IF we already had a decent amount of good "urbanity", I very seriously doubt there would be nearly the opposition you now see.
       We would have something of what we want, we would be more secure, and it wouldn't be as big a deal if this or that area, became something different. We got it, it's solid and growing, we are doing well. But when we DONT have it ANYWHERE and it only looks like there are a few possible areas where it "might" happen and on top of all of that we constantly see those areas chipped away with non urban developments going in.... well panic sneaks in at every turn.

IF we had good urban zoning in place, I very seriously doubt there would be nearly the opposition you now see.
        We would then know with some assuredness that whatever went in wherever, it would meet at least some basic pedestrian/transit/urban friendly guidelines.    
 
Again.  We desperately want something we do not have, and we don't have zoning protection to ensure that we get it (quite the contrary, it's illegal in most areas), so everything in every likely area becomes a flashpoint of fear.

Once we get a good smattering of pedestrian/transit friendly urbanity, those fears will subside considerably.  If we ever get some good urban zoning in place, those fears will subside considerably.  But until then us poor urbanites in Tulsa are scampering around like rats out in the open, afraid for our lives, without a nest to go hide in lol.  And YES, until we get a place to call our own or some zoning in place to ensure that in the future,  we will lash out at anything that gets anywhere near any place that we can have some glimmer of hope in creating a little nest for ourselves. What other choice is there from our perspective?


 

[carltonplace]

People weren't opposed to Wal*Mart as much as they were opposed to the traditional sprawling suburban design that was proposed. We should be able to expect better and we shouldn't need to settle just for development's sake. Wal*Mart already has urban friendly stores in their portfolio...if Chicago can expect this, why can't Tulsa?

[AquaMan]

Yeah, but its in an old building. Got to be too pretentious for Wind River southies.

[JCnOwasso]

I think an urban friendly target would be accepted... but I think they would rather see something with a small footprint that can adapt to an existing building.  Heck I would love to see something go into the old Renbergs that had an abbreviated selection of groceries and home needs.  As for home depot, it was put in there when nothing else was downtown, they took a chance.  Had wal-mart or target jumped in at the same time, I am sure that people would look differently at them.  But they didn't.  Wanting to come in after the fact and when downtown has been building for close to a decade, I feel people have the right to stand up and say they wouldn't want it... after all, are they not the desired customers?   

[TheArtist]

A lot of people I know were not opposed to the Wal-Mart and had only proposed minor changes be made to the exterior design along the front and along 6th street, and traffic flow layout at the front of the building and parking lot.  But the answer seemed "take it as we have presented it or not at all".  That's one reason I would like to see zoning for downtown that greatly encourage companies to come in with appropriate designs in the first place and also greatly lessen peoples opposition.  If you knew that "this area or these connected streets" of downtown are zoned for this type of development and these others can be for another... then the "urbanites" feel more secure that the future will hold something for them and developers of all sorts will know where they can build what type of structure where.  Denver does that in it's downtown, you can build whatever you want here, but along these streets you have to build pedestrian/transit friendly stuff.  Everyone knows they will get something of what they want in a far more orderly, much less fear and animosity enviroment. If you could zone Elgin and 6th street for example to have pedestrian friendly frontage, I bet most people would then say "Do whatever you want with the rest of the "East End" I know we are going to get some good stuff here, we are ok now".  As it is you know nothing.  

[carltonplace]

Yeah, but its in an old building. Got to be too pretentious for Wind River southies.

Then they have "new" buildings in their portfolio that are urban design.

Fort Totten:


Proposed Washington DC

[Teatownclown]

Why the focus on WalMart?