Keystone dam broken?

[carltonplace]

Good article here explaining what Swake brings up...

http://glenpoolpost.com/news/article_2f5627ad-feef-5f65-a095-e7c47035ea6d.html

My overall point was/is, we were essentially lied to during the V2025 voting.  Wonder how much of the $5.6M is left after the terrazzo flooring upgrade at the bok??   

Ah, good 'ol Tulsa.

Salukipokie, welcome to the forum. I can tell you have a healthy distrust of local government and elected officials. Glad you are here to join us in our lively debates. I have to ask that you fact check just a little before you make some of these assertions.

The floors in the BOK arena were paid for by branding the arena as "the BOK Arena". Bank Of Oklahoma paid for the upgrades and we let them put their name on our building.

The $5.6 million that we voted for in V2025 for low water dams must be spent for that purpose. Repurposing voter approved tax funds without consent o the voters is illegal and it is covered in the language of the proposition that we approved:

The people of Tulsa County, Oklahoma, by their approval of the
proposition set forth in Section 1 of this Resolution at the election hereinabove provided,
hereby authorize the Board of County Commissioners of Tulsa County, Oklahoma, by
Resolutions duly enacted to make such administrative and technical changes or additions in the
method and manner of administration and enforcing this Resolution as may be necessary or
proper for efficiency and fairness except that neither the rate of the tax herein provided, nor
the term, nor the purpose of the tax herein provided, shall be changed without approval of the
qualified electors of the County as provided by law

[swake]

Good article here explaining what Swake brings up...

http://glenpoolpost.com/news/article_2f5627ad-feef-5f65-a095-e7c47035ea6d.html

My overall point was/is, we were essentially lied to during the V2025 voting.  Wonder how much of the $5.6M is left after the terrazzo flooring upgrade at the bok??   

Ah, good 'ol Tulsa.

How were we lied to? It was to be the local matching funds for federal money. It still is.

It's the failure of our congressional delegation to get the promised money that you should be upset over. The federal funding is even approved, it's just never been appropriated.

[AquaMan]

From that link:


Background:
Vision 2025 funds will be utilized to construct two low water dams, which along with Zink Lake, will provide a series of lakes in the Arkansas River corridor. These low water dams will enhance the Tulsa area's most visible physical asset by creating a series of urban lakes within the river channel.

Sounds like we should have low water dams by now.

A lot of people thought that the dams were going to be built with the funds from V2025.
IIRC the funds were only enough to fund impact studies and construction plans, not the funding to actually build them. That was going to require federal funds to complement what was locally available.

At best it was miscommunication. At worst it was misleading. I don't think you can see it as fraud.

[swake]

A lot of people thought that the dams were going to be built with the funds from V2025.

A lot of people think a lot of things that are completely bogus. Go look at the number of commenters on the TW site that don't read anything more than a headline. I actually think it's most of those knotheads.

[custosnox]

TW reports that they are now discussing raising the low water damn by 3 feet, and doing some other changes to it at a cost of $22.7 million.  $29 million has been secured for the project.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20110714_11_0_AnArka343981

By KEVIN CANFIELD World Staff Writer
Published: 7/14/2011  8:01 AM
Last Modified: 7/14/2011  11:39 AM

The River Parks Authority on Tuesday morning expressed its support for raising the height of the Zink Dam by 3 feet and removing the fountain to provide more recreational space.

The $22.7 million project was the least expensive of four dam modification proposals presented to the River Parks' board.

It includes replacing existing gates of the dam, adding new ones and reconfiguring the downstream face of the dam to remove the dangerous roller effect. The deeper water would provide for more recreational opportunities.

Nearly $4 million in Vision 2025 and $25 million in state bond money has been secured for the project.

Other, more expensive options were not endorsed by the board, which expressed concern about maintenance and operation costs.

Board member Chet Cadieux said the River Parks is hard press to pay for the repairs to the existing dam.

"We have committed to the fact that we are going to do a better job on these kind of projects to figuring out up front how we are going to come up with money to keep them up," Cadieux said.

The estimated cost of doing all four projects is $36.8 million.
The other projects include:

Adding an 80-foot-wide, controllable flume. This public water space downstream from the dam would provide safe access to the water and create opportunities for fishing, kayaking, rafting and other water activities. It also would provide fresh water to the Crow Creek delta and create a public island that would be submerged during high flow. Cost: $10.4 million
Adding a 100-foot-wide, controllable standing wave for kayaking. The standing wave would be the largest of its kind in the country. Project would be similar to the old Tulsa Wave but much larger. Cost: $1.7 million
Adding park space and water access. This project would include removing the fountain upstream of the pedestrian bridge to provide more park space. Cost: $2 million


The overall intent of the project is to make the dam and the lake it creates safer and to provide better access for state officials who harvest striper eggs in the river.

The proposal's cost includes a 25 percent contingency fee and is not set in stone. The size of the flume and standing wave can be scaled back, for example.

Tulsa County and communities up and down the river have been working together for years to implement the Arkansas River Corridor Master Plan.

In 2007, county voters rejected a $282 million sales-tax initiative to fund major parts of the plan, including improvements to Zink Dam and the construction of low-water dams in Sand Springs and south Tulsa.

County commissioners later agreed to proceed with dams. The proposal presented Thursday marks a significant step toward that goal.

If officials decide to move forward with the project, construction could begin in two years.

[carltonplace]

That is cool, I had no idea that anyone was working on building a wave on the east bank.

[rdj]

This could be interesting if any kind of water craft is allowed on Crow Creek once Kaiser finishes his work on the land he owns along the creek to Peoria.

[carltonplace]

Time to open a kayak shop. 

[SXSW]

Right now there wouldn't be enough water most of the year to kayak on Crow Creek.  I like the idea of a whitewater park beneath the dam.  It already is one in a way but is not as developed as it could be.

[AquaMan]

A lot of people think a lot of things that are completely bogus. Go look at the number of commenters on the TW site that don't read anything more than a headline. I actually think it's most of those knotheads.

Oh, I agree.

[AquaMan]

That is cool, I had no idea that anyone was working on building a wave on the east bank.

Yeah, I have a water color of the idea rolled up somewhere in my basement. Presented it for comment to this board about 6 years ago. Those guys are geniuses.

[TheArtist]

From that link:


Background:
Vision 2025 funds will be utilized to construct two low water dams, which along with Zink Lake, will provide a series of lakes in the Arkansas River corridor. These low water dams will enhance the Tulsa area's most visible physical asset by creating a series of urban lakes within the river channel.

Sounds like we should have low water dams by now.

From what I understood at the time, the money was to be used to build the dams, and still will be,,,, but that sum was only a partial amount and was never portrayed as going to be able to do it all by itself.  We were going to have to get other funds on top of that, whether state or federal or whatever to build them. Regardless, no way anyone could think that a measly 5 or 6 mill alone could be expected to build a single dam, let alone the several that were being thought about, lol thats crazy.

[Salukipoke]

Salukipokie, welcome to the forum. I can tell you have a healthy distrust of local government and elected officials. [/b]

I could bring up several reasons why I've grown distrustful of tulsa government and the tight knit group of individuals who run this city (non-elected individuals), but I'll just continue to point out the verbage on the ballot.  I know the money allotted wasn't anywhere near enough to construct the dams, but how many people walking off the street to vote knew or researched that before they voted?  Some prolly walked in, read the ballot, saw the verbage, saw "construct" and said "heck, ya!"

I'm not very bright and even I know the word "construct" should never have been on that ballot.  But that just goes with how things are done around here; legal or not.  And just to be open; I didn't vote for any of the props on Vision 2025, but did vote for Mayor Savages plan(s) when they would have put Tulsa out in front of OKC... now we're just chasing them.  It's too bad; the people of Tulsa are great, Tulsa's in a great location/climate, just poor leadership and no dam dams!   

[Vision 2025]

Those guys are geniuses.

Yes they are

[Salukipoke]

Oh, and I also knew $141M was no where near enough to pay for an arena that looked identicle to the one in Miami.