Keystone dam broken?

[RecycleMichael]

My mother was only a Corps of Engineers employee for a few years. She now works for a FEMA contractor on disaster mitigation projects.

[Doc RR]

The opportunity to create a world-class whitewater venue is on the table for Tulsa.  This is possible with the modifications of Zink Dam.  What is a whitewater venue and what makes it world class?  Find out more info at:

www.tulsawhitewaterpark.com

[AquaMan]

I like it. But beware- this ain't Maryland and RPA is not your friend. Three things come to mind:

1.  You got some guts to bring this out in the midst of one of Oklahoma's worst droughts since the depression! I like that.

2. You can expect that most of the usage will be from outside of the local area. Locals will scoff at the thought of flipping a kayak in this river. They think they might dissolve from the perceived pollution. And that is one of the favorite areas for fishermen.

3. You may have difficulty getting it insured. Fast water, big boulders and light weight kayaks with kids in them means huge premiums.

[custosnox]

2. You can expect that most of the usage will be from outside of the local area. Locals will scoff at the thought of flipping a kayak in this river. They think they might dissolve from the perceived pollution. And that is one of the favorite areas for fishermen.

The two points in this section seem oddly counter to one another.

[AquaMan]

The two points in this section seem oddly counter to one another.

Not really. Locals aren't going to be the biggest part of a white water kayak operation. They just don't trust the water quality. Fishermen know the water is not in bad condition there, or they are willing to endure it to catch fish!

What I see is that a white water kayaker is not the same demographic as a low water dam fishermen. They could get in each others way. If they do RPA will just run them off by asking for their fishing license. They do that every so often. It makes for bad feelings.

[custosnox]

Not really. Locals aren't going to be the biggest part of a white water kayak operation. They just don't trust the water quality. Fishermen know the water is not in bad condition there, or they are willing to endure it to catch fish!

What I see is that a white water kayaker is not the same demographic as a low water dam fishermen. They could get in each others way. If they do RPA will just run them off by asking for their fishing license. They do that every so often. It makes for bad feelings.

I was being flippant since the fishermen are generally local, and they have gotten past the idea of the river being so polluted.  But it is a pretty ingrained stigma to get past.  I did actually have someone tell me that they thought that if you put your hand in the water it would melt off. 

[rdj]

Once while looking thru old neighborhood files at the central library I came across a 60's era multi-use project that would be built along the west bank of the river just north of I-44.  The story cracked me up because the verbiage was nearly word for word the 2007 river plan marketing.  It's true that in Tulsa the more things change the more they stay the same.

[Breadburner]

Not really. Locals aren't going to be the biggest part of a white water kayak operation. They just don't trust the water quality. Fishermen know the water is not in bad condition there, or they are willing to endure it to catch fish!

What I see is that a white water kayaker is not the same demographic as a low water dam fishermen. They could get in each others way. If they do RPA will just run them off by asking for their fishing license. They do that every so often. It makes for bad feelings.

Does the RPA even have authority to ask for someones fishing license......

[AquaMan]

Does the RPA even have authority to ask for someones fishing license......

I doubt it, though they make people think so. That would be Fish and Game(?) or Okla Lake Shore Patrol if they're on the river. They could require that to fish off the part of the dam designed for fishing that they have a license. The RPA security tries to keep them off the bridge and away from the fountain area.  What little policing power they have over the river starts at 11th street bridge and ends at the dam. However, they have authority over the paths that surround the river so they somewhat control access to the river by the fishermen.

When push comes to shove, RPA will contact the proper authority and limit their numbers. The fishermen are low on the influence level even though they are the biggest category of river users right now.

My big fear right now is the increase in bow fishermen around the low water dam area. They can't legally shoot off the bridge but there isn't enough enforcement to stop them. They can only legally shoot non-sporting fish (gar, carp etc.) but I haven't seen a gar in that part of the river all summer. They're probably going after catfish. Accident waiting to happen.

[Breadburner]

I have not been around any RPA folks in a long time....But when I was they all seemed rather strange....

[AquaMan]

Still are. Plenty o' good stories there.

Mostly they're just like any other untouchable authority. If they make it through this economic period unchanged it will be because of friends like the Kaisers and Warrens. Otherwise they would be history.

[custosnox]

Had one from RPA tell one of my kids tuesday that there is quicksand in the sandbars

[AquaMan]

I've been told there is but have never seen any. In fact rumors of horses or cattle that sank in quick sand abound. But you're talking a couple thousand pounds concentrated on 4 small hooves.

I watched a Channel 6 cameraman sink to his knees on a wet sand bar getting out of my boat upstream of the refinery. He was pretty pissed when he dropped the camera but it was just wet sand.

[Vision 2025]

Does the RPA even have authority to ask for someones fishing license......

No, but they have the authority to regulate where one can or cannot fish from RPA facilities.

[Salukipoke]

Maybe he needs to go back to Southern Illinois.  Sheesh.

Reading for comprehension... re-read my post; I said I absolutely love the people of Tulsa (I married one), the city itself is in a great, centrally located part of the country, the climate for the most part is great, and there is a TON on the plus side for this city.  Growing up outside Cook County however, it disgusted me how just a handful of people actually run Chicago; I see a lot of the same "corruption" and self serving leadership here.  Additionally, I now see the city simply chasing (and copying) whatever OKC is doing.  Tulsa used to be a leader, not a follower.

And yes, I voted for all the amateur athletic venues in Savage's proposals.  It was a unique concept at the time and Tulsa, being centrally located, could have drawn big numbers to national events.  There are quite a few cities making MILLIONS from amateur athletic venues and you don't have to look any further than Frisco, Texas to see results.  Try getting a hotel room down there when there is a soccer tourney or hockey tourney in that town.  Parents won't always spend money on themselves to go to concerts, but they'll spend BOATLOADS on their kids sports.

And back to the dam dams; why didn't the city simply allow one of the sand companies to set up a micro operation on the west bank of Zink Lake to pull sand on a more consistent basis?  Guess nobody with a sand company was connected to the right people..........