Coburn Has A Point

[sauerkraut]

Anyone see that Tulsa World article about Coburn & that I-244 overpass bridge thing? He believes it's just waste and I agree We don't need a rail line with no train service to use it and the bridge they are tearing down was not in bad shape at all, it seems a good re-surface job could of make them like new, I'm no engineer but the supports on the bridge that they are tearing down don't look bad at all. IMO alot of road work is busy work to keep contractors working, They re-surfaced highway 360 in Arlington Texas  when there was nothing wrong with the road it was smooth & clean. That is alot of big money being spent there.

[bokworker]

I will give kraut this...he has the most appropriate avatar of all TN posters...

[Conan71]

Anyone see that Tulsa World article about Coburn & that I-244 overpass bridge thing? He believes it's just waste and I agree We don't need a rail line with no train service to use it and the bridge they are tearing down was not in bad shape at all, it seems a good re-surface job could of make them like new, I'm no engineer but the supports on the bridge that they are tearing down don't look bad at all. IMO alot of road work is busy work to keep contractors working, They re-surfaced highway 360 in Arlington Texas  when there was nothing wrong with the road it was smooth & clean. That is alot of big money being spent there.

You've apparently missed the discussion that those bridges are the same design as the I-35 bridge in Minneapolis which collapsed.  As far as the intermodal part of it being a waste, I agree to an extent.  However, if that feature is not added, it will increase costs in the future for a functional high speed rail bridge.  Like it or not, high speed rail will be an integral part of transportation in this country in the future.

[swake]

Anyone see that Tulsa World article about Coburn & that I-244 overpass bridge thing? He believes it's just waste and I agree We don't need a rail line with no train service to use it and the bridge they are tearing down was not in bad shape at all, it seems a good re-surface job could of make them like new, I'm no engineer but the supports on the bridge that they are tearing down don't look bad at all. IMO alot of road work is busy work to keep contractors working, They re-surfaced highway 360 in Arlington Texas  when there was nothing wrong with the road it was smooth & clean. That is alot of big money being spent there.

They resurfaced those bridges just two years ago, they have been resurfaced so many times they looked like a damn quilt.

[Townsend]

It's probably best to let these threads go ahead and meet their maker.

You can't reason with a Tulsa World post.

Just an opinion.

[swake]

I will give kraut this...he has the most appropriate avatar of all TN posters...

Inteller had had a couple come close. Around the time he was whining about Target he had a little guy running around with his head in flames. Classic.

[ZYX]

Oh God, here we go again. This bridge IS needed, the multimodal part is debatable, but the bridge is needed. The old bridge was not structurally sound, no matter how good of shape it appeared to you to be in. If you are not a structural engineer that has inspected the bridge your opinion is invalid.

Also, as Conan said, rail will be a major mode of transportation in the not so distant future, why not be ready for it now? I wonder what Mr. Coburn thinks of I-40 being moved several blocks south in OKC? If that's not waste, then my dictionary must have a typo.

[Conan71]

Oh God, here we go again. This bridge IS needed, the multimodal part is debatable, but the bridge is needed. The old bridge was not structurally sound, no matter how good of shape it appeared to you to be in. If you are not a structural engineer that has inspected the bridge your opinion is invalid.

Also, as Conan said, rail will be a major mode of transportation in the not so distant future, why not be ready for it now? I wonder what Mr. Coburn thinks of I-40 being moved several blocks south in OKC? If that's not waste, then my dictionary must have a typo.

I'm not 100% certain, but isn't one of the MAPS projects funding the I-40 relocation?

[Townsend]

I'm not 100% certain, but isn't one of the MAPS projects funding the I-40 relocation?

Almost positive they secured federal for that project.

Edit:

The reconstructed Crosstown is expected to be open to traffic in 2012. It is estimated at approximately $600 million, a project federally funded using a blend of earmark and regular formula federal dollars.

http://www.okladot.state.ok.us/newsmedia/i40-okc/index.htm

[swake]

I'm not 100% certain, but isn't one of the MAPS projects funding the I-40 relocation?

Not at all, that's a federal interstate project money being spent there.

[TheArtist]

  Don't forget, the intermodal part was not really about a possible line to OKC (great if that happens but...).  The main reason was that we will need it when we start commuter rail here in Tulsa.  Remember the plans to get a starter line from the redevelopent area on the west bank to the Fin Tube site?  That could then serve as the nexus for rail that would then branch out to Jenks, the Airport and Owasso, BA, etc.  Its that first little node right in and around downtown that will cost the most. After that its relatively smooth sailing and less expensive than widening highways to and from those places in the future. (its costing them 100 million per mile to widen the highway by my house).   But anyway, we knew we couldn't get federal or state funding for commuter rail, especially that first, most expensive chunk we would need to get started, BUT if it were sold as being part of the High Speed rail.... then ya get some funding. They are slowly adding together the pieces for eventual commuter rail, and I think are being rather clever about it.  Lets hope they keep it up.  And too, these types of things (commuter and rail to OKC) will take a while to get going, getting some pieces in place today, tomorrow and the next will only make it that much easier when the time comes when we do decide to make the leap and put them into place. Part of a "thinking ahead" long range strategy. This is just one expense out of the way for either scenario and helps make it all the more likely that the people of Tulsa will be willing to go with the now smaller expense it will take to implement commuter rail or the people of Oklahoma to impement rail to OKC, whichever actually happens or comes first.  

[Conan71]

Thanks guys you are quite correct.  Interested to see if the 2012 timeline comes to pass.

[sauerkraut]

You've apparently missed the discussion that those bridges are the same design as the I-35 bridge in Minneapolis which collapsed.  As far as the intermodal part of it being a waste, I agree to an extent.  However, if that feature is not added, it will increase costs in the future for a functional high speed rail bridge.  Like it or not, high speed rail will be an integral part of transportation in this country in the future.

What makes you say that- I believe the bridge in MN was steel and much of that steel was rusty from all the road salt used in winter, this Tulsa bridge has cement supports, and like Coburn said we have no rail system for it and by the time rail (if it ever arrives in Tulsa) comes the bridge will be old & outdated and they will have to tear it down and build a new up dated one. They are just spending money out the wazoo. IMO it's more tax money down the rat hole.

[sauerkraut]

Another thing that frosts me is the building of a new justice center for $54 Million dollars and they want it too look like a kings palace, when they could turn Rosevelt school into a justice center for only $8-$10 Million and the place has two pools and a big gym and all the works, but nope, they come up with excuse after excuse on why that school cannot be turned into a County Justice Center for kids. We must build new for $54 Million dollars a big fancy place. They were talking about this issue  on KFAQ radio's morn. show. Tax, spend & waste. I do not believe a new bridge for I-244  is really needed, what about a good bridge overhaul for a fraction of the cost? Then I understand the eastern bridge will be left alone for many years until they can find $30 million dollars to do that one. If the bridge is that bad and in such poor shape like they claim- why are they going to let it alone for many more years?  

[nathanm]

I know, we'll use this instead. It would save a lot of money. It'll even go great with the rest of the buildings downtown.