I-44 Corridor through "Tulsa"

[Hoss]

Or maybe I-37 since there is already a I-39 going from Peoria IL to somewhere in Wisconsin.

Or since I-45 spurs from Dallas to Houston, maybe I-47, since I-49 exists between SW and NW Louisiana?  I know the Interstate system only designates majors on the ordinals of 5 and 10 (i.e, I-5, I-15, I-25, I-35, etc etc are considered full-length major interstates n/s, I-10, I-20 etc etc the same way E/W) which by definition are those that carry a high volume of traffic long distances.

Heck, maybe they could just designate it I-45 if they're making it that far.  Change the North Central Expy in Dallas to that, and really on US75 they would not have to do much until they got to Atoka.

[Red Arrow]

Or since I-45 spurs from Dallas to Houston, maybe I-47, since I-49 exists between SW and NW Louisiana?  I know the Interstate system only designates majors on the ordinals of 5 and 10 (i.e, I-5, I-15, I-25, I-35, etc etc are considered full-length major interstates n/s, I-10, I-20 etc etc the same way E/W) which by definition are those that carry a high volume of traffic long distances.

Heck, maybe they could just designate it I-45 if they're making it that far.  Change the North Central Expy in Dallas to that, and really on US75 they would not have to do much until they got to Atoka.

If "we" can't get high speed rail between Tulsa and Dallas, maybe we could at least get an Interstate caliber highway.  I really don't care so much what they call it.

The little towns along the way wouldn't lose anything from me.  I go to the state line for a rest stop and don't need fuel or food until Waco on my way to Uvalde, about 90 mi west of San Antonio.

Edit: spelling correction

[rdj]

Tulsa didn't grow away from downtown because of I-44.  Downtown Tulsa is not the center of the city of Tulsa because Dr Kennedy got pissed the city wouldn't run water to his land for a housing development he was doing and said no one could build on his land for many years after he died.  It is also hampered by the topography and the fact it's Osage County and at the time the Osage Reservation.  The developers if Maple Ridge basically paid influential people to live in those homes.  It was flat, tree-less land that stunk because of the refineries.  When the Lorton's developed Reservoir Hill they billed it as a place to enjoy the breeze without the "stench of the river."  I-44 was an outer loop when it was built akin to the Creek Turnpike when it was built.  Land south and east of downtown has been easier & cheaper to develop since Tulsa was founded.  Combined with the fact that the roughnecks and workers were trapped on the west side (because of a toll bridge) no one for 90 years has wanted to develop north and west of downtown.  Politics and the class system made it this way and they continue that problem.

[AquaMan]

Tulsa didn't grow away from downtown because of I-44.  Downtown Tulsa is not the center of the city of Tulsa because Dr Kennedy got pissed the city wouldn't run water to his land for a housing development he was doing and said no one could build on his land for many years after he died.  It is also hampered by the topography and the fact it's Osage County and at the time the Osage Reservation.  The developers if Maple Ridge basically paid influential people to live in those homes.  It was flat, tree-less land that stunk because of the refineries.  When the Lorton's developed Reservoir Hill they billed it as a place to enjoy the breeze without the "stench of the river."  I-44 was an outer loop when it was built akin to the Creek Turnpike when it was built.  Land south and east of downtown has been easier & cheaper to develop since Tulsa was founded.  Combined with the fact that the roughnecks and workers were trapped on the west side (because of a toll bridge) no one for 90 years has wanted to develop north and west of downtown.  Politics and the class system made it this way and they continue that problem.

Those are interesting observations.

I would take issue with some of the remarks having done some research into Maple Ridge in the late 70's when I was a realtor and about the time I bought a home there. What we call MR today, was hardly flat and treeless though all of Tulsa was sparsely treed until the oil execs from the east came and developed in a manner they were comfortable with. Early pictures and descriptions show that much of the land had been stripped of trees for heating and construction. Newly arriving oil people planted the trees and fostered the parks all over the city.

Travel up 15th from Boston on a snow packed street and tell me its flat. Observe Cherry street from 13th and Boston on a wintry day and notice how it sits high above the downtown. Or travel along Madison south of 21st during a spring rain and notice how the water pools up because of the hilly terrain. No, the only part of MR that is flat is the original plat that runs from 18th to 21st, Detroit to Peoria and its likely that it was graded for development.

Early on there was bifurcated development of Tulsa with some execs moving to the North and some to the near South. Cosden built on Denver to be able to see his refinery as did many other execs. Riverview was an executive residential area because they wanted to live nearby. Many of the residents of near South Tulsa owned businesses that the oil wealth desired. My home was built by the president of the Ice Plant. I'm not surprised that incentives would be offered to build in MR, they were likely very competitive in trying to draw new money away from the North and existing concentrations of wealth.

Note the lovely mansions just north of downtown around the Kennedy mansion and along north Denver. You can see that lots of homes similar in design to Morningside, Tracy and Maple Ridge exist in that area as well as Owen park. The city was expanding in two directions up to the time that Skelly located at 21st. Then the tide turned. Skelly was someone the execs wanted to live near. The growth of Greenwood and its black population combined with the race riots, spelled the end of northern executive expansion.

West Tulsa was always working class. The toll bridge didn't last long and was replaced before the major growth described above. The prevailing winds have always blown the majority of smell northwest and South. We get some smell intermittently when the wind comes out of the west, or when a storm blows in, but then so does the whole city. That had little to do with development. Its true that Osage county is more difficult to develop due to its hilly and rocky topography. They also had to deal with less infrastructure support. Osage is huge, was hindered in growth by Osage Indian ownership (though that didn't stop folks, just slowed them down a bit) and Tulsa sits at its periphery. Development followed least resistance imo.

We have posters who live in Reservoir Hill and can better relay its history, but my understanding is that the Mayo family was its driving force, not the Lorton's. I just don't remember. I do know the more sophisticated mercantile population resided there and the views are gorgeous and it was near a new water source and a new airport. But not good access to the refineries, especially in winter.

There was lots of stuff happening in a very short time period between 1915 to 1929 in Tulsa. Its population exploded and the variety of its class and race made development very interesting. Without the direction and leadership of educated, experienced entrepreneurs from back East, we'd still be....Podunk, OK. with a statue of Lee on a horse in Woodward Park instead of a Native American They made mistakes but were pretty much a microcosm of the country at the time. All of this is pretty well documented in books and pics from the period though details are often polished up a bit.

[rdj]

I posted from my iPhone.  Hard to proofread.  Yes, the Mayo's developed Reservoir Hill.  Just a brain fart because I was mad at the Lorton's because their workers can't seem to deliver a newspaper on Sunday morning.  Eugene Lorton's mansion was actually in Owen Park, just down from the Irving statue.

I actually live at Reservoir Hill in a home built by Cass Mayo.  Prior to moving here 18 months ago I did quite a bit of research on the history of the area and why it was a forgotten development, unlike Maple Ridge.  I spent a lot of time at the library as well as meeting with the preservation commission, Tulsa Foundation for Architecture, a TU professor and other local "historians" & developers.  My hope was to discover any nuggets I could about my home.  Unfortunately, other than a brief pamphlet done in the 90's, very little research has been completed on Reservoir Hill.  The Mayo's receive the credit for developing the neighborhood, but they were actually the second developer and only built homes, they didn't plat the neighborhood.

When I said Maple Ridge was flat I was referring to the original Maple Ridge, 15th to 21st.  The land east of the river and south of the Osage Hills was prairie land and historical writings state it was treeless.

If you read John Brooks Walton's writings and a few other writings on the history of Tulsa between 1915-1930 you'll discover the developer had to give away the first lots to encourage development.  One of the first lots the developer donated was to a Tulsa Congressman.  He thought people would want to live near a Congressman, and he was right.  The originally developer and family were involved in the founding of First National Bank, which is now JP Morgan Chase Bank.

[AquaMan]

Maple Ridge's North boundary is actually 18th street. The area from 15th to 18th is Morningside. Note how the land drains away from the the original MR plat on all sides. Its like they shaved the top off a small hill. Morningside was developed on land owned by a woman of Cherokee or Creek heritage who married a real estate developer. She subsequently disappeared. Not uncommon I'm told.

Anyway, its also not uncommon for movers and shakers to get more freebies than common folk. No doubt the competition to get new wealth into the MR area included great incentives to bankers and other key people since North of downtown was still a viable choice for them.

I believe a lot of historical stuff has been purposely destroyed, hidden or changed over the years to protect reputations. I wish you luck with the Hill research. Some stuff I got was from the phone directories from that time period. They often listed names, occupations and marital status. You can piece stuff together, tedious but fun.

As an aside, my street in MR was originally called Tookah street. No one knows why. When I was selling real estate a haughty young couple spoke of disdain about the houses in my edition just west of MR which is called Southside (note how they marketed it vs North?). They said it was populated with "hangers on". I patiently responded that in fact, MR was developed several years after Southside which made them the hangers on.

Lost that couple.

[rdj]

What we call Maple Ridge is actually what 30-40 "neighborhoods" from a platting standpoint?  I believe the first was Southside followed by Morningside, Maple Park, Maple Ridge, Sunset Park & Maple Heights.  I don't think that is correct order but I think those were all done in the teens.  The Skelly Mansion wasn't built until 1923, so the Maple Ridge area was on its way before he built his monument to himself.

On the subject of Kennedy, it is very interesting how his refusal to do anything with his land changed that side of Tulsa.  One man changing the direction of a city out of spite.

The amount of information about the hill is shockingly low.  I've made attempts over the last year or so to speak with the Mayo/Oliphant family about what family documents they may have about the hill.  Everyone I know that knows them says they are very private and have been leery to discuss with them.

When Wiggins converted the Mayo Building I understand he found plans for several of the Spanish Colonial homes that are on the hill that Cass Mayo is believed to have designed himself.  Preservation Commission staff told me they are sitting in their office but they haven't had time to review them.  Frankly, its sad that the city hasn't taken more of an interest in the hill.  The architectural diversity of the homes on the hill and the stock of Gothic Revival at its north base is quite amazing.  One can find nearly every style of architecture from around Tulsa (Spanish Colonial, Modern, California Modern, Mid Century Modern, Federalist, Colonial, Traditional, Spanish, Ranch and Tuscan) within the 40-50 homes on the hill.

Back to original topic, I-44 didn't cause the growth away from downtown, but it certainly didn't help the sprawl.  A completed Gilcrease Expressway connecting with the Tisdale would hopefully spur development along the westside and north of downtown.  However, I hope the Osage Hills are left as in tact as possible.  They are a beautiful asset that is certainly under appreciated.

[AquaMan]

I love the Hill. I always get lost over there though. Google doesn't help me, I just can't figure out the logic of it all. Wish I could convince my wife to pick up a bargain over there, but we're getting a bit old to attack another project of that scope. I'm sure you've visited the county courthouse to look at the records. That can put you on to some different paths.   

You know even into the 70's and 80's there were still empty lots in the original MR. You can also see where savvy builders did some infill on low demand vacant lots in the 60's. Duplexes, contemporaries, moderns scattered around the area. I like that actually.

I just wish they had routed I-44 away from the industrial, auto salvage and sewage treatment areas.

[dbacks fan]

I just wish they had routed I-44 away from the industrial, auto salvage and sewage treatment areas.

I-44 was the interstate replacement for Rte 66 and was built as a bypass around Tulsa for interstate commerce and travel from St. Louis to OKC where it transistion to the I-40 corridor from OKC to LA. That is why there is so much industrial development along that path including salvage yards. I'm not sure when the sewage plant n ext to the Pepsi plant was built, but I do remember it being there in the mid to late 60's. I have said it before and I will say it again, the growth to the south was well on its way in the early 70's and once Ford announced plans and built the glass plant everything really shifted that way in 74 or 75.

Someone else made reference to and included a map of US 75 as it runs north and south through the central part of the US, here is a map of US 60 that runs from Virgina Beach to LA and it's family of highways. It was the predescesor to I-40.

http://www.usends.com/mapguy/MapPgs/mapx60.htm

[dbacks fan]

Speaking of highways, I have driven what was once called US 666 from Gallup NM to Cortez CO.

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/infrastructure/us666.cfm

[Red Arrow]

here is a map of US 60 that runs from Virgina Beach to LA and it's family of highways. It was the predescesor to I-40.

By the early to mid 70s, US 60 was not the way to get from Va Beach, VA (NAS Oceana) to Tulsa.  Getting to I-40 was not convenient but once on I-40 it was a breeze to Tulsa, except for the 55 MPH speed limit.  Oh, and a bunch of snow on a visit after my Navy days in Jan 1978 made the trip across TN interesting.

[we vs us]

Thanks for the back and forth, rdj and Aquaman.  Very edifying for this relative newbie.

[carltonplace]

Thanks for the back and forth, rdj and Aquaman.  Very edifying for this relative newbie.

I know, right?

AM here are some pics of Codsen's mansion which was where the University Club Tower is now. The neighborhood is now part of Riverview but it was Stonebreaker Heights back in the day:

[rdj]

Cosden built beautiful buildings.  It was his building at 4th & Boston that became the Mid-Continent Tower.

AquaMan, the hill isn't very logical.  I think that is why a bunch of us "creative" and "left of center" people like it.

[rdj]

Thanks for the back and forth, rdj and Aquaman.  Very edifying for this relative newbie.

I love Tulsa history.  I was never much of a buff about world history or even early American history.  However, the fact that I can walk the same steps, sidewalks, tunnels, etc as people who had a profound effect on our city, region and country is very intriguing to me.