Sager's 1st St Lofts in Foreclosure

[DowntownDan]

I'm not buying the economy excuse.  This place started work in early 2007, before it really hit the fan.  He already had financing in place, including from tax payer funds, prior to the collapse.  Downtown has also thrived around that building in the last four years.  I don't buy that he's the only one suffering and who can't finish the project.  There is something else going on here and I am very suspicious about it.  I don't know him personally or the details of his situation, I'm just pointing out that his story doesn't add up.  And I agree it's pretty ridiculous that he put his own name on the building and then essentially abandoned it.  And I expect if he is kicked off the project through foreclosure, that someone else would step in and finish it off in a reasonable amount of time.

[Conan71]

I think everyone agrees that it needs to be finished and I hope he finds a way to do that.
He should not have any problem renting these units as long as they are priced to attract younger downtowners. We need these units, we need the v2025 loan paid back so it can be re-allocated to another housing project in downtown...downtown and the BD will benefit from these lofts.

Its hard to buy into Sager's assertion that the economy is to blame when we all know that he went back to V2025 for a second disbursement, we know the amount of the salary that he paid to himself at 1st St Lofts and we know that he recently bought another building on Elgin that will soon (we think) be a restaurant.

How much was he paying himself as a salary does anyone know?

And I expect if he is kicked off the project through foreclosure, that someone else would step in and finish it off in a reasonable amount of time.

Just as long as it's not Jerry Gordon.

[DTowner]

How much was he paying himself as a salary does anyone know?

Just as long as it's not Jerry Gordon.

Railroad Walk.

[carltonplace]

How much was he paying himself as a salary does anyone know?

Low 6

Here is a little perspective:
Urban Tulsa article from July of 2010
http://www.urbantulsa.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A31241

Tulsa Now discussion from July 2009
http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=13875.0

[rdj]

The replies to the story on the TW website are interesting.  No idea if the poster has any legitimate knowledge, but it certainly is damning.

[Red Arrow]

Typical Sager.  His finances have always been binary.

There are 10₂ ways to look at that.

[Kenosha]

Eliot has attempted to buy the project many times.   Over/Under on how many months until he does?

He has?  Evidence?

Look, I am not defending the obvious absurdity of the situation.  The project should have been able to be completed within the budget, and there is no one to blame but the developer.  But anyone who says the economy hasn't affected real estate development in Tulsa isn't in the development business.  It has ground to a halt.  The stuff that has happened in downtown, or anywhere, is from pure willpower, from private investor capital, or is a self financed pet project, because the banks aren't having it.  I know established developers who have lost their donkey in this economic debacle, and you won't find a single developer who says that it's been good since late 2008.

[rdj]

He has?  Evidence?

Look, I am not defending the obvious absurdity of the situation.  The project should have been able to be completed within the budget, and there is no one to blame but the developer.  But anyone who says the economy hasn't affected real estate development in Tulsa isn't in the development business.  It has ground to a halt.  The stuff that has happened in downtown, or anywhere, is from pure willpower, from private investor capital, or is a self financed pet project, because the banks aren't having it.  I know established developers who have lost their donkey in this economic debacle, and you won't find a single developer who says that it's been good since late 2008.

My evidence drowned in the bottom of a pint glass at McNellie's one evening...

You are right about development.  Save for the Kaiser owned center in BA, Tulsa Hills, S Memorial & downtown there is next to nothing going on in Tulsa right now.

[Conan71]

Based on the construction bid news services, I'd dispute that.

Sure grandiose projects like the big river development south of the Creek are on hold, but did anyone really see that coming to fruition any time soon?  Tulsa was nearing a saturation point prior to the collapse in 2008.

[Teatownclown]

Based on the construction bid news services, I'd dispute that.

Sure grandiose projects like the big river development south of the Creek are on hold, but did anyone really see that coming to fruition any time soon?  Tulsa was nearing a saturation point prior to the collapse in 2008.

Ahem....you waited four 3 years to make that assertion?

[Conan71]

Ahem....you waited four 3 years to make that assertion?

Nope.  I bet you can search the archives and find me making that claim as far back as '07 or '08.  It was starting to look a lot like the early '80's again...

[carltonplace]

Ahem....you waited four 3 years to make that assertion?

I've never seen Conan endorse a grandiose type of development. Not sure what you meant.

Suburban developments have not slowed in my opinion...Tulsa Hills and the Memorial/Bixby corridor have tons of activity. Urban core development is just now starting to ramp up.

We have seen a slow down in the bungalow/Mcmansion swaps that were popular a few years ago.

[Teatownclown]

I've never seen Conan endorse a grandiose type of development. Not sure what you meant.

Suburban developments have not slowed in my opinion...Tulsa Hills and the Memorial/Bixby corridor have tons of activity. Urban core development is just now starting to ramp up.

We have seen a slow down in the bungalow/Mcmansion swaps that were popular a few years ago.

Don't ramp up too much.....this economy will be a drag for many years.

[rdj]

Based on the construction bid news services, I'd dispute that.

Sure grandiose projects like the big river development south of the Creek are on hold, but did anyone really see that coming to fruition any time soon?  Tulsa was nearing a saturation point prior to the collapse in 2008.

Dispute what?  Construction news services will tell you housing is down 30% over 2010, mainly because of expired tax credits, and 2010 was still significantly off from 2007.

Commercial isn't better.

[Conan71]

Dispute what?  Construction news services will tell you housing is down 30% over 2010, mainly because of expired tax credits, and 2010 was still significantly off from 2007.

Commercial isn't better.

I don't follow residential, no money in it for me, or precious little. 

Only thing that's not happening right now is development of any new shopping districts or M.U.D.'s (like the East End), there's plenty of incremental development going on. The volume of projects on isqft (Bid News Ok) looks about the same as it has for the last five years with it's usual mix of government, medical, hotel, new restaurants, schools, etc. Decent mix of public and private money...