The Double Dip Has Arrived

[we vs us]

At this point, no one really cares who he blames.  No one expects him to take a leadership role, not even his own party.

He's so consumed prancing around the country on his class warfare tour that people have basically stopped listening. 

All speech, no substance, expecting others to take the reigns and the blame.

I wasn't talking about who Obama blames . . . I was talking about who we the people will blame.  Who will take the fall for a negative event that's out of our control?  

[Breadburner]

Got Fox running in the background there do ya?

[Townsend]

Exactly Bread, exactly.

[Teatownclown]

Going slightly o/t here: Speaking of China and trying to help our economy, I'm currently in the market for a higher end slide in range and dishwasher for a kitchen renovation project.  Thus far, I keep finding appliances which are made in Canada or China, seems to be hard to even find high end GE or Frigidaire built in the U.S.  I suspected lower end units would be made in China or Mexico but really surprised we don't even make the high end stuff here any more.  If anyone knows of a manufacturer who is standing pat on American production and assembly, I'd love to go that route.  At the very least I will buy from a locally-owned store if I can't find American-made.

Acura? Be optimistic despite it being out of favor, Conan.

Nate, you are correct, as usual.

RA, I prefer to blame SCOTUS....

ST, quit trolling.

Burner, you need new material....

[Townsend]

Provide any example to the contrary.

Regurging "class warfare" in your post provides an argument against what you write.

[Red Arrow]

I wasn't talking about who Obama blames . . . I was talking about who we the people will blame.  

Same answer as before, Bush.  Everything wrong with this country is Bush's fault except what is Bush the elder's or Reagan's.

 

[Townsend]

Same answer as before, Bush.  Everything wrong with this country is Bush's fault except what is Bush the elder's or Reagan's.

This just popped up on Twitter feed.  Has AI become a bit more militant?

http://www.politico.com/politico44/perm/1211/no_amnesty_315049e9-9bcf-4353-9e15-87195a3c0df5.html

Amnesty International is calling for the arrest of former President George W. Bush while he is travelling overseas in Africa.

The human rights group issued a statement Thursday calling for the governments of Ethiopia, Tanzania or Zambia to take the former president into custody. According to Amnesty, the 43rd president is complicit in torture conducted by the United States during his administration and should be held pending an international investigation.

"International law requires that there be no safe haven for those responsible for torture; Ethiopia, Tanzania and Zambia must seize this opportunity to fulfill their obligations and end the impunity George W. Bush has so far enjoyed," said Amnesty senior legal adviser Matt Pollard in a statement.

[Gaspar]

I wasn't talking about who Obama blames . . . I was talking about who we the people will blame.  Who will take the fall for a negative event that's out of our control?  

That's the problem, and to some extent the widening rift between political philosophies. Yes there are some things out of our control, at least at this point, but the vast majority of "things" are, and, for the last three years, were completely under our control. It just depends on the people that a leader chooses to listen to.

On one side the free-market capitalists, business owners, innovators and employers were demanding a pull back of all things government and stimulus that fed the private sector.

On the other side the Keynesians, social engineers, and congress members with desks full of failed proposals were demanding full frontal government advance, and stimulus to the public sector.

In the middle were the advisors who said "Mr. President, you can't let this crisis go to waste."  This is our chance to shift money from free market endeavors with public support and demand, to liberal initiatives that we can develop support and demand for!

At the top was a leader willing to take the gamble, knowing he could play the blame card for any chips that were lost in the gamble.

On the sidelines you had businesses, watching the drama, quietly biding their time until the insanity is over.

Now all of those who supported these grand and foolish initiatives are throwing their hands in the air saying, "well, theres nothing we could do anyway. This is all out of our control.  It all depends on Europe.  It goes back to Reagan. It was Bush's fault, so it's not our responsibility to address. It's congress's fault.  It's the oil companies' fault.  It's big businesses who keep hoarding money.  It's the rich.  It's the hurricanes, tsunamis, global warming, climate change, climate catastrophe, BP environmental disaster,  Wall Street investors, banks, and the media. He's just the president, he doesn't make the laws, he has no control over what congress does. Don't blame the president, he's a very busy man.  He has more important things to worry about than a do-nothing congress. Hey, look over there, he got Osama."

No one gives a flip who the Obamites want to blame things on.  Stop with the speeches, and do something.  You want to spur business growth?  Talk to the business owners.  Your "jobs bill" is crap, we don't need to spend another million dollars on a sidewalk in Hulbert, or a solar ribbon manufacturer using 20yr old technology, or millions to research radioactive rabbit droppings, or a new bicycle bridge in Stigler.

Fixing this ox cart is not hard, in fact, simply making energy less expensive, probably would have been all the fix we needed to avoid prolonged and secondary recession.  Keep the banks going long enough for cheap energy to produce increased production and ease prices for goods and services, then slowly pull the reins back to a reasonable tension.

[nathanm]

Well, at least half of your first paragraph was grounded in reality, Gaspar. It's an improvement, anyway.

[we vs us]

That's the problem, and to some extent the widening rift between political philosophies. Yes there are some things out of our control, at least at this point, but the vast majority of "things" are, and, for the last three years, were completely under our control. It just depends on the people that a leader chooses to listen to.

I was asking about Europe, about which we -- as individuals and as a nation -- have very little control over.  It has the largest economy in the world, valued in 2010 at $13.6T.  What happens when that splits apart into multiple currencies, multiple rump economic units, all of whom are cratering to one degree or another?  The economy is global, obviously; what are our next steps to protect ourselves from the failures of other parts? 

But if you want to answer the question you wish I'd asked, feel free. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

Going slightly o/t here: Speaking of China and trying to help our economy, I'm currently in the market for a higher end slide in range and dishwasher for a kitchen renovation project.  Thus far, I keep finding appliances which are made in Canada or China, seems to be hard to even find high end GE or Frigidaire built in the U.S.  I suspected lower end units would be made in China or Mexico but really surprised we don't even make the high end stuff here any more.  If anyone knows of a manufacturer who is standing pat on American production and assembly, I'd love to go that route.  At the very least I will buy from a locally-owned store if I can't find American-made.

Whirlpool is making ranges just north of here in Owasso.

[Conan71]

Whirlpool is making ranges just north of here in Owasso.

Full line?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Full line?

Haven't looked lately.  Check with Metro Builders Supply - or their current name, can't remember.
They only go up to about $2,000 in price, so if you want to spend more, you will have to go somewhere else most likely.

Do you want a Viking type?

[Conan71]

Haven't looked lately.  Check with Metro Builders Supply - or their current name, can't remember.
They only go up to about $2,000 in price, so if you want to spend more, you will have to go somewhere else most likely.

Do you want a Viking type?

No, I'm looking GE Profile or whatever Frigidaire's upscale lines are.  Range I'm looking at is smooth top with expandable elements and a warmer, oven is regular function or convection and theres a warming/storage drawer as well.  $1200 to $1500 range.  Anything more capability than that would be wasted on me.  I'd love to have a full gas chef's range, but it would involve running a gas line under the floor and I'd rather not get into that.  It's been done once before to run a capillary water line and wiring to the island in a renovation during the mid 1990's.

[heironymouspasparagus]

No, I'm looking GE Profile or whatever Frigidaire's upscale lines are.  Range I'm looking at is smooth top with expandable elements and a warmer, oven is regular function or convection and theres a warming/storage drawer as well.  $1200 to $1500 range.  Anything more capability than that would be wasted on me.  I'd love to have a full gas chef's range, but it would involve running a gas line under the floor and I'd rather not get into that.  It's been done once before to run a capillary water line and wiring to the island in a renovation during the mid 1990's.

I've been looking too, but every time I just get irked by the whole thing.  I have gas stove, so may just go over to Tulsa Stove Hospital in Redfork and buy an antique.  Cost less and very much more cool.  Work as well if not better.  My current old Magic Chef has failing valves, and Whirlpool, who bought the company, wants to encourage people NOT to repair, so they rape and pillage on the parts.  (They are doing that to Maytag washer/dryer parts now, too.)

I'm not impressed by the electronic controls that they are using in this type of appliance.  They "value engineer" it to the point where it is gonna fail on you in 3 to 6 years.  And the replacement cost is $400 for the control panel.  Yuck.  (Relative is going through that now with a Thermador brand.)  And the only real problem is they put some cheesy electrolytic caps on the control boards, instead of a good cap, so it dries out in a few years and the power supply fails.  

Have done some cooking on the smooth top at the relative's, and I just can't get the hang of it.  Too much conditioned to natural gas, I think.  Keep over or under doing it.  Electric oven is good - that seems to be pretty easy.

Yeah, if gas line not already there, it can be a pain.  Strongly recommend finding a good plumber to install if go that route.