Archer Market

[sgrizzle]

BA/Coweta has a Blue Bell Factory. I believe Borden downtown is distribution, not production.

Isn't it Borden on the Turner Turnpike? That would mean three places in the state making Ice Cream.

[Conan71]

BA/Coweta has a Blue Bell Factory. I believe Borden downtown is distribution, not production.

Isn't it Borden on the Turner Turnpike? That would mean three places in the state making Ice Cream.

Hiland is down in Chandler.

[carltonplace]

You need people living Downtown, then a grocery store.

I live downtown: If it had been a grocery store I would have used it. It was more like a bodega.

[DowntownDan]

I unfortunately never shopped there.  Maybe if there was a buzz about it being a neat place with good food and good grocery selection it would not have slipped my mind for seven months to check it out.  I never heard a word from anyone about the place and it sounds like it may have had its issues.  I hope it doesn't dissuade someone else from giving it a go with a different business model.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Doesn't BA/Coweta have an ice cream factory?

Does Borden make any ice cream at their plant on the west edge of Brady/east edge of social services district.

No....they have Blue Bell....

[heironymouspasparagus]

Hiland is down in Chandler.

Do they make ice cream?  They have great milk....and the Great Value in most of the Walmarts is bottled by them....can tell by PLT #.  5041, I think for Tulsa area, IIRC.

[TheAnsonia]

I would use a downtown grocery store a lot and don't live down here.  But even if I did live downtown I couldn't have used this store as a grocery store.

That was our experience exactly. We know plenty of people who live downtown to support a small grocer. Couple that with those who work downtown who might pick up some items on their lunch break/after work or companies purchasing deli platters for meetings or last-minute break room necessities. The problem was that Folks seemed to operate more as a high-end deli than a grocery store. The produce was moderately priced, but you never knew what they might have on hand. We sometimes purchased the pre-made meals that you heat up at home, but if we're going to have to go home and assemble the meal and basically make it from scratch anyway, it's cheaper to just buy the ingredients elsewhere for much cheaper.

A Braum's mini-grocery store would be great, but a more full-service Whole Foods or Trader Joe's kind of place would be better. I know I am not alone in that I would pay more at a store downtown to avoid having to leave the IDL. (Case in point - the two very nice, but slightly higher-priced liquor stores downtown.)

[Red Arrow]

I know I am not alone in that I would pay more at a store downtown to avoid having to leave the IDL. (Case in point - the two very nice, but slightly higher-priced liquor stores downtown.)

That pretty much goes for any store located close to where someone is.  That depends, of course, on how much more expensive, how much one intends to buy, and the cost and time of transportation.

[rdj]

I disagree about downtown needing a full-size grocer to serve the residents.  If you've ever lived in a high-rise or even mid-rise apartment building you know that carrying more than a few grocery bags onto the elevator and to the apartment is a royal pain the butt.  If you're walking (or transit) from a store rather using a personal vehicle you only buy what you can carry.  With that being said most downtown dwellers only need a store big enough to stock the equivalent of 2-3 days worth of groceries.  I also believe the store would serve downtown workers if it was within walking distance of their office and easy back to the car.  I don't think many people would pull out of their garage, stop at a downtown store then head home.  The pricing advantage (due to cheaper dirt to build on) of the suburban store would trump that model.

[TheArtist]

That is the ideal situation, having a decent population in a pedestrian friendly area, and then a small store or two.  When I was in London I would walk a few blocks and get enough for a few days, no big deal. Comparable food items cost about the same as they do here.  I remember when I first got back to Tulsa after staying in London the last time for about a month.  I had a headache and needed some aspirin.  I remember thinking "holy crap" I will have to go all the way up the parking garage, get my car, wind it all the way down, then drive over to some store, then come back and park.  Where as in London I just walked out the door along a quiet, beautiful, pleasant neighborhood street and right around the corner was a bustling "main street" with plenty of places to get whatever I wanted.  Actually, within a block of where I was there were a few small, neighborhood type deli's and such.

It's not just the amount of population, but the form that is very important.  Again, going to Dallas and seeing high-rises everywhere, and nobody out walking because it sucks to walk because of the built environment which then puts everyone in cars and finding it easier to go a few miles away versus even going to the smaller place, if there is one, closer by.

[heironymouspasparagus]

That is the ideal situation, having a decent population in a pedestrian friendly area, and then a small store or two.  When I was in London I would walk a few blocks and get enough for a few days, no big deal. Comparable food items cost about the same as they do here.  I remember when I first got back to Tulsa after staying in London the last time for about a month.  I had a headache and needed some aspirin.  I remember thinking "holy crap" I will have to go all the way up the parking garage, get my car, wind it all the way down, then drive over to some store, then come back and park.  Where as in London I just walked out the door along a quiet, beautiful, pleasant neighborhood street and right around the corner was a bustling "main street" with plenty of places to get whatever I wanted.  Actually, within a block of where I was there were a few small, neighborhood type deli's and such.

It's not just the amount of population, but the form that is very important.  Again, going to Dallas and seeing high-rises everywhere, and nobody out walking because it sucks to walk because of the built environment which then puts everyone in cars and finding it easier to go a few miles away versus even going to the smaller place, if there is one, closer by.

Downtown Milwaukee is kind of like that....lot's of people live downtown, walk everywhere or ride their bikes.  Small grocers every few blocks.  Nice little places near every hotel I have ever stayed at there.  And the restaurants are good!!   They have Cousin's Subs, too!!  Nice!!

[rdj]

Downtown Milwaukee is kind of like that....lot's of people live downtown, walk everywhere or ride their bikes.  Small grocers every few blocks.  Nice little places near every hotel I have ever stayed at there.  And the restaurants are good!!   They have Cousin's Subs, too!!  Nice!!

I visited Milwaukee for a conference a few years back.  Was SHOCKED at their downtown.  It was very modern, not the dirty manufacturing hub I had pictured.

[Conan71]

I wonder if a grocery truck concept would fly downtown several days a week until someone can put a more comprehensive grocer in place.  Stock it with good produce, a spice collection, fresh bread, and meats.

I agree with RDJ's comment about what sort of grocer is needed.  When I lived at Center Plaza, the Homeland was still open at 11th & Denver.  I'd walk over for my food supplies every few days.  Never carried more than one or two bags for obvious reasons.  Something with the size and offerings of a Braum's Fresh Market would be ideal.  The market portion of a Braum's probably +/- 1200 sq ft. so it wouldn't even require that much floor space.

Braum's apparently is not interested in such a concept, so I wouldn't think it too difficult or overly expensive for the right people to get one going.  I think the problem with the Folks Market operators is they are not from a grocery background, to my knowledge.  It sounds as if they stocked the store with things they liked or at least thought people would like and buy with no consideration for price points nor actual demand based on the comments posted here from people who went.  I also have no idea how well marketed the concept was. 

There was not a big buzz about it once they got going.  I believe some people have come to rely on social media a bit too much for marketing and advertising.  The problem you have there, is you are usually only marketing to people who have been in your establishment and who have then "liked" your store page.

[rdj]

Thanks Conan.  Downtown doesn't need a grocer, it needs several grocers.  Philtower lobby or mezzanine floor would be an excellent location.  Serve their residents, the hotel next door and the workers in the adjacent buildings.  Treats on Main should add a grocery section.  Serve the residents of the Mayo Bldg and even Mayo Hotel.  Brady District along Archer could use a grocery to serve the Detroit Lofts and Tribune/Metro lofts.

The other obstacle to a downtown grocery is finding the right mix between grocery and deli/pre-packaged foods.  The residents downtown either work & play hard with no desire/time to cook or are older and frequent the downtown restaurants rather than cook.

Ironically, these same obstacles exist for north Tulsa, their just work & income limitations rather than the opposite.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I visited Milwaukee for a conference a few years back.  Was SHOCKED at their downtown.  It was very modern, not the dirty manufacturing hub I had pictured.

It's a beautiful downtown - and state!   I would move there tomorrow if it weren't for the winters!!  Or would also go for 5 months there, 7 months here....

Many of the movie shots that are supposed to be Chicago - in a lot of movies - are actually Milwaukee....