The Magical Misery Tour

[Gaspar]

That happens with technology companies.  It's easier and cheaper to employ off US soil.  There are a myriad of reasons, but the bottom line is that it costs less money and allows them to remain competitive.

Some companies stay on principal, or because they own enough of the market share to mitigate those expenses.  You can't blame a country for seeking profit.  That's the goal.

I suppose you can't blame the President either for seeking the best product at the best price.  If he had chosen a domestic company, he would have probably had to settle for inferior craftsmanship, or a more expensive product.  

I think it would have been nice for him to show up in a couple of vehicles that could serve as examples of his dedication to the American economy, but it's not really that important.  Certainly not as important as the need for high quality transportation at a reasonable price, after all he's only using these buses for one more day, then it's off the the vineyards.

It's good to see him out among his people.

[Conan71]

That happens with technology companies.  It's easier and cheaper to employ off US soil.  There are a myriad of reasons, but the bottom line is that it costs less money and allows them to remain competitive.

Some companies stay on principal, or because they own enough of the market share to mitigate those expenses.  You can't blame a country for seeking profit.  That's the goal.

I suppose you can't blame the President either for seeking the best product at the best price.  If he had chosen a domestic company, he would have probably had to settle for inferior craftsmanship, or a more expensive product.  

I think it would have been nice for him to show up in a couple of vehicles that could serve as examples of his dedication to the American economy, but it's not really that important.  Certainly not as important as the need for high quality transportation at a reasonable price, after all he's only using these buses for one more day, then it's off the the vineyards.

It's good to see him out among his people.

A friend of mine worked for GM in Mansfield, Ohio right out of college as an EE.  After seeing a Honda Accord savaged by some union tools in the parking lot at the plant, he got the picture right away that driving anything but a GM product was frowned upon but to drive anything built by a foreign competitor on site was akin to spitting on hallowed ground.

Certainly he could have toured in a Newell which is built in Miami, Ok. and considered on par with Prevost.  Or he could have not wasted taxpayer money on a PR tour to benefit his campaign in the first place.

[Gaspar]

A friend of mine worked for GM in Mansfield, Ohio right out of college as an EE.  After seeing a Honda Accord savaged by some union tools in the parking lot at the plant, he got the picture right away that driving anything but a GM product was frowned upon but to drive anything built by a foreign competitor on site was akin to spitting on hallowed ground.

Certainly he could have toured in a Newell which is built in Miami, Ok. and considered on par with Prevost.  Or he could have not wasted taxpayer money on a PR tour to benefit his campaign in the first place.

Can you imagine the strategy meeting on this one.  Last week in a basement somewhere, two campaign strategists strategerize ~~~~

Neil:"Ok, dude, I've got it, I've got it. . .We buy a couple of tricked out buses and we have him travel around the Midwest sayin stuff like 'I feel your pain.'  That smile worked for Clinton all day dude!"

Bob:"Dude, they will love that.  He can like use the whole 'Home & Change' thing again, and the people will feel he's really close to them because he's ridin around in a bus and stuff."

Neil: "I think it's 'Hope & Change'. 

Bob: "Oh yeah, whatdid I say?  Home? 

Neil: "That's wak dude."

Bob: "So he just zooms around makin all kinds a crazy unemployed friends, then zooms off like Superman in his magic bus."

Neil: "Where does he zoom to?"

Bob: "The airport you idiot, then to the vineyards for some crazy Robin Leach vacation smile."

Neil: "That is so awesome, we're like the best stragerists."

Bob: "I know man, I know."

[JCnOwasso]

So... how about the Bush "Yes, America Can" bus tour before the 2004 election?

As for the fact that the buses are not "made in America".  Even though the President is the President, his procurement staff are required to follow the Federal Acquisition Regulation, just like the rest of us.  You can't merely toss out a competitor because they are a non domestic end product.  If they provide a significantly better product at a better value, and they can put pen to paper and show you how and why, they can still be the successful offeror.  Even if there is a product in the states that is on Par, they need to be able to write a good proposal and prove how good they are.  

Oh and Bush's buses were manufactured by the same company...  

But you should also note that all of the support vehicles were American made.

[Conan71]

As for the fact that the buses are not "made in America".  Even though the President is the President, his procurement staff are required to follow the Federal Acquisition Regulation, just like the rest of us.  You can't merely toss out a competitor because they are a non domestic end product. 

I deal with government RFQ's all the time, local, state, and Fed.

They most certainly can.  Any RFQ can specify made in USA only.  Under those conditions any bid for a comparable foreign product will be tossed unless there is no US made equivalent.  There's no requirement I'm aware of which states every RFQ must request U.S. made goods though. 

At the rate we are going, there won't be US made equivalents on many items in the next 20 years. 

[JCnOwasso]

They most certainly can.  Any RFQ can specify made in USA only.  Under those conditions any bid for a comparable foreign product will be tossed unless there is no US made equivalent.  There's no requirement I'm aware of which states every RFQ must request U.S. made goods though.  

At the rate we are going, there won't be US made equivalents on many items in the next 20 years.  

Local and State don't really matter in my mind considering it deals with an entirely different set of rules.  The Buy American Act is what sets the rules on how you deal with domestic vs non domestic.  If you have competing domestic vs non domestic end products you still have to award to the best value.  If the non domestic product still provides the best value, after inclusion of an "adder" (a % that you add to the proposed price and then compare to the domestic products) you will be making award to them.  Unless they are in a restricted country.  Don't even get me started on Trade agreement countries, that opens an entirely different set of rules...

If you have seen an RFQ (Fed) with a restriction to made in america only, I would be interested in seeing it.  I have been doing this for 10+ years on the federal side (Pencils to Planes) and I have only seen 1 instance where there were issues and that was AFTER award (Army berets were initially awarded to a UK company who was outsourcing the manufacturing to China... HUGE political snafu).

And I have found something I agree with you on... that last statement you made is very much the case. 

[Conan71]

Local and State don't really matter in my mind considering it deals with an entirely different set of rules.  The Buy American Act is what sets the rules on how you deal with domestic vs non domestic.  If you have competing domestic vs non domestic end products you still have to award to the best value.  If the non domestic product still provides the best value, after inclusion of an "adder" (a % that you add to the proposed price and then compare to the domestic products) you will be making award to them.  Unless they are in a restricted country.  Don't even get me started on Trade agreement countries, that opens an entirely different set of rules...

If you have seen an RFQ (Fed) with a restriction to made in america only, I would be interested in seeing it.  I have been doing this for 10+ years on the federal side (Pencils to Planes) and I have only seen 1 instance where there were issues and that was AFTER award (Army berets were initially awarded to a UK company who was outsourcing the manufacturing to China... HUGE political snafu).

And I have found something I agree with you on... that last statement you made is very much the case. 

JC, industrial/large commercial heating is my bag and that's where I see the buy American set-aside quite frequently as well as women, minority-owned, hub-zone, etc.

[JCnOwasso]

Buy American doesn't necessarily mean that it is required to be American Made... Just means that an American product will have a preference.  However, depending on the Agency issuing the order, they may have differing regulations.   

Trade agreements shot alot of that to hell in a handbasket though, makes my job "fun".   

With Small Business set-aside, there is no getting around that.  Woman-Owned, SDVOB, Hubzone, 8(a) etc... if it is set aside for that, you can't get it unless you are classified as that.  I really should put my service disabled vet status to work. 

[Teatownclown]

Does this thread seem thin on substance? Does anybody recognize the thread title came from Rush Limbaugh's show?

[Red Arrow]

Does anybody recognize the thread title came from Rush Limbaugh's show?

Does anybody really care?

[Teatownclown]

You don't think intelligent people would like to know where this discussion originates?

[Conan71]

Does this thread seem thin on substance? Does anybody recognize the thread title came from Rush Limbaugh's show?

What have you been doing listening to Limpbaugh?  That's brain rot, man!

[Teatownclown]

What have you been doing listening to Limpbaugh?  That's brain rot, man!

It's quite entertaining....and Bortz (sp?) is even better.

We must keep our enemies close....

[Gaspar]

Does this thread seem thin on substance? Does anybody recognize the thread title came from Rush Limbaugh's show?

Actually it's a Mitt Romney quote from MSNBC.   

[Red Arrow]

Actually it's a Mitt Romney quote from MSNBC.   

Teatownclown spoke an untruth? 

He must be listening to Fox News too much.