Obama's Foreign Policy

[Townsend]

You dark eyes are just intolerant of us pale eyes.

Hear hear.

[Conan71]

I'm not intolerant, I just don't like anyone or anything.

[Gaspar]

It won't matter.  Your clouded intolerance would remain.

You seem like a smart guy.  I blame the talk shows you choose to listen to.

Now I'm just confused.  Have I said anything remotely intolerant?

I understand that you need to look at my posts through your filters, but I have said nothing to indicate a western based tolerance issue.

On the contrary, many Islamic cultures have tolerance issues with western culture.  That IS the issue.

We do not forbid the cultural/religious practices of Muslims in this country, on the contrary, in many cases we celebrate Islam as part of the multicultural fabric of our nation, however it would be very unwise for us to expect the same in their country.  You need only to visit Saudi Arabia on a business trip with a female companion to learn that they will not tolerate the concept of western equality.

This is all fine, and it is their culture, and up to them to change if they desire it, but to throw that back on us and say that we are the intolerant ones because we celebrate our freedom and (sometimes without invitation) flaunt it in front of others is unwarranted.

[Townsend]

Now I'm just confused.  Have I said anything remotely intolerant?

I understand that you need to look at my posts through your filters, but I have said nothing to indicate a western based tolerance issue.

On the contrary, many Islamic cultures have tolerance issues with western culture.  That IS the issue.

We do not forbid the cultural/religious practices of Muslims in this country, on the contrary, in many cases we celebrate Islam as part of the multicultural fabric of our nation, however it would be very unwise for us to expect the same in their country.  You need only to visit Saudi Arabia on a business trip with a female companion to learn that they will not tolerate the concept of western equality.

This is all fine, and it is their culture, and up to them to change if they desire it, but to throw that back on us and say that we are the intolerant ones because we celebrate our freedom and (sometimes without invitation) flaunt and celebrate it in-front of others is unwarranted.

Anyone else care to give it a shot?

[Gaspar]

Anyone else care to give it a shot?

No, you are the one that called me "intollerent," I am very interested in your explanation of this character flaw of mine.

[Teatownclown]

Not me.

Do you think the discussion went south due to nobody being able to refute the success of Obama's foreign policy decision making ability?

[Red Arrow]

Not me.

Do you think the discussion went south due to nobody being able to refute the success of Obama's foreign policy decision making ability?

No.

Nobody is unlucky all the time.

[Gaspar]

Not me.

Do you think the discussion went south due to nobody being able to refute the success of Obama's foreign policy decision making ability?

Perhaps.  From the Halls of Martha's Vineyard to the shores of Tripoli.  

Don't really think it had much to do with the President.  I will be very happy for Egypt if they can sustain this peace with the rebel organization and NATO aid.  The problem is that so many of these things end up disintegrating over time.  With no government, a vacuum forms and organizations like Hamas and The Brotherhood step in with significant financial backing to pick up the pieces and restore simple services like power,  water, trash, education and other amenities.  

I am hopeful that we don't see that in this case.

[Teatownclown]

Perhaps.  From the Halls of Martha's Vineyard to the shores of Tripoli.  

Don't really think it had much to do with the President.  I will be very happy for Egypt if they can sustain this peace with the rebel organization and NATO aid.  The problem is that so many of these things end up disintegrating over time.  With no government, a vacuum forms and organizations like Hamas and The Brotherhood step in with significant financial backing to pick up the pieces and restore simple services like power,  water, trash, education and other amenities.  

I am hopeful that we don't see that in this case.

Some political group has to....glad you left out the Hezzies....

[Hoss]

No, you are the one that called me "intollerent," I am very interested in your explanation of this character flaw of mine.

Re-read this and try...please try...to have a mind about it that's a secular point of view.

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=18012.msg209195#msg209195

See what you've done there?  You are generalizing the ENTIRE Muslim faith as being 'they'.  Many non-secularists do this to drum up Christian chest-thumping.  I'm not saying you did this on purpose; it's the result of the last 10 plus years of hearing how the Muslims are evil.

[nathanm]

So, is our way of life not perceived as a threat in many Arab countries?

Our way of life is perceived as a threat to many in this country. Extremist extremists are extremist. Sometimes extremism is based on religion. Sometimes it's based on a perceived threat to one's rights. Sometimes it's based on nothing but teh crazy.

[Townsend]

Could you imagine how this could've gone if he-who-should-not-be-named had piped up?

Anyway, thanks for the assist Spock, Sulu.

[Gaspar]

Re-read this and try...please try...to have a mind about it that's a secular point of view.

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/index.php?topic=18012.msg209195#msg209195

Perhaps we need to define US and THEM.

When I speak of "Western Philosophy" I am inclusive of all cultures that make up that quilt.  Our point of pride is the freedom we enjoy in expressing. . .well. . .our freedom.

When I speak of "Them," that would mean Islamic societies that rely on "The Path" as dictated in Islam.

Lets look at a simple example.  In the majority of Western societies, adultery is frowned upon, and for the most part homosexuality is accepted, even though both may be against the majority of religious doctrines.  

In many Islamic societies these crimes, known as hudud, are punishable by death.  Even in what we consider a modern Islamic society, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, these punishments are carried out regularly.

So, when I say that we "evangelize" our freedoms, I mean it, and when I say that many of those same freedoms are met with the "sword" in Islamic societies, I also mean it.

If that makes me intolerant, then I suppose there are simply some practices that I can't see myself tolerating.

[nathanm]

In many Islamic societies these crimes, known as hudud, are punishable by death.  Even in what we consider a modern Islamic society, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, these punishments are carried out regularly.

And this is where you lose me. Pretty much nobody considers Saudi Arabia to be a modern Islamic society, at least in the way they treat their people.

[Gaspar]

And this is where you lose me. Pretty much nobody considers Saudi Arabia to be a modern Islamic society, at least in the way they treat their people.

+1

Good.  I'm glad you feel that way.  What would be your idea of a modern Islamic society?