Another stab at liquor law reform

[DTowner]

Interesting article that compares the 3-tier system to an extension of Prohibition (and what it calls the Bootleggers and Baptists coalition).  It is a useful reminder than Oklahoma is not alone in its silly laws or the uphill battle we face in bringing about modernization.

http://www.mackinac.org/15789

[jacobi]

In the last tulsa world article they said that the next meeting of the committe would be in Feb.  Does anyone know if there is a way for citizens to sit in on this?  Or is this a closed doors deal?  If it's open doors...ROAD TRIP!  I know I could ge quite a few people to show up for this.

[DolfanBob]

Here's a hint for you, Hoss.

Ever since Santa Fe Brewing started shipping Nut Brown Ale to Oklahoma, I really don't care to do border runs to Siloam, Ark City, Ks. or even bring Fat Tire back from my excursions to Colorado or NM.  NBA is a superior brew to Fat Tire, but don't tell the New Belgium flaks that. Far richer malt.  Trust me on this one, I know I blew it on Marshall's, but really trust me for once

Conan. I'm going to take your word about Santa Fe Nut Brown Ale. Cause if it is good enough to stop Road trips. I'm in.

[Conan71]

Conan. I'm going to take your word about Santa Fe Nut Brown Ale. Cause if it is good enough to stop Road trips. I'm in.

It rocks.  Pick up a six this weekend, you won't be sorry!

[DolfanBob]

It rocks.  Pick up a six this weekend, you won't be sorry!

I told the man at the new B&B liquor that I was taking a friends advice about trying this beer and he handed me a six and I told him to go ahead and give me two. He thought that was awesome to take a chance like that.
And it was not a risk at all. Great beer and I was glad I had twelve. Thanks Conan.

[TheTed]

I hope these comments cause lots of complaining customers and/or lost business for Mary Stewart of Ranch Acres Wine & Spirits.

She said customers - especially those from Oklahoma - rarely complain that refrigerated wine and beer aren't available in liquor stores.

The current system may seem odd, but it ensures that strong beer, wine and liquor sales and their profits are controlled by Oklahomans, she said.

Out-of-state corporations would be big winners in a move to loosen alcohol sales, she said, and consumers would be the big losers because fewer wine and beer labels would be available in the marketplace.

"Letting those big superstores into the market is not going to help us here," she said. "The selection would diminish. The prices would certainly not go down on the bulk of things."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20111001_16_A1_CUTLIN226110

A. I don't go into liquor stores and grumble about backwards laws. I just buy what I want in states where it's actually sold. Before all this hubbub, I assume liquor store owners were, like me, forced to deal with stupid laws. From some comments in these stories, they're very willing participants. Makes me want to go out of my way to avoid them.

If I do end up in an Oklahoma liquor store anytime soon, I'm going to spend more time complaining about stupid smile than buying, because apparently liquor store owners think the status quo is A-OK.

B. How in the hell would we have less selection? That's so far from reality and not even possible.

There's a crowdsourced spreadsheet of brewery availability by state out there.

The number of breweries by state (obviously it's not perfect, but it's close):
Texas 124
Missouri 123
Kansas 113
Arkansas 72
Oklahoma 68

[dbacks fan]

Selection would diminish? What a load of crap! Sounds like she's affraid of open competition. When I lived in AZ there are two large store places and the buyer benefits, and there are plenty of specialty stores as well not including grocery and convenience store, and no one was 'OH MY GOD THE CHILDREN SHOULD NOT SEE THIS FILTH AND SIN IN PLAIN VIEW!!!!!'

[jne]

Interesting, I would expect liquor stores like ranch acres (a quality store IMO) would be big winners.  My experience with the folks employed at that store have been great.  However, I've been disappointed in the already limited selection and just because I'm used to buying hot beer doesn't mean I don't mind - I hate it EVERY time I have to buy a hot premium beer.  While it might hurt sales at stores that don't offer much more than 4 walls and a bunch of booze (god forbid we might lose respected business like say "Bunghole"....)  I'd love for someone to explain to me what would cause a further limiting of selection.

[Conan71]

Interesting, I would expect liquor stores like ranch acres (a quality store IMO) would be big winners.  My experience with the folks employed at that store have been great.  However, I've been disappointed in the already limited selection and just because I'm used to buying hot beer doesn't mean I don't mind - I hate it EVERY time I have to buy a hot premium beer.  While it might hurt sales at stores that don't offer much more than 4 walls and a bunch of booze (god forbid we might lose respected business like say "Bunghole"....)  I'd love for someone to explain to me what would cause a further limiting of selection.

I've been saying this all along: Changing the distribution network to allow high point beer and wine in groceries really won't make much of a dent in liquor store business that they aren't already losing now due to store closing requirements after 9pm and Sundays.  At least well-stocked stores which a large selection of wine and beer shouldn't suffer terribly. 

Based on the way grocers must apportion shelf space, they can't possibly afford to stock obscure microbrews.  Just a guess, but local grocers would offer high point versions of the common Mexican beers, three or four of Choc and Boulevard's offerings, high point versions of Red Stripe, Heineken, and other beers which have been shipping 3.2.  Those are beers I only pick up out of convenience while buying food or if I mis-planned and forgot to get to the liquor store on Saturday and I want something other than American style piss water when I'm working in the yard on Sunday afternoon. 

Case in point: We had a painting project going on at FMC's yesterday.  Nothing is better than a cold brew while painting, but there was nothing in the house.  Only option is 3.2 from the grocer, so I grabbed some Red Stripe and some Boulevard Wheat.  Neither is in my usual taste range, but it beats Miller or Bud Lite.  What I'm getting at is that I don't see convenience or grocery stores cannibalizing large amounts of business from liquor stores.  They will simply sell higher point versions of what they already sell to their patrons.

A grocer isn't going to make a huge investment in upscale wines, they will carry some decent varieties to match with food.  Again, people who appreciate great wine will still visit their local liquor store.

[DTowner]

I hope these comments cause lots of complaining customers and/or lost business for Mary Stewart of Ranch Acres Wine & Spirits.

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=11&articleid=20111001_16_A1_CUTLIN226110

A. I don't go into liquor stores and grumble about backwards laws. I just buy what I want in states where it's actually sold. Before all this hubbub, I assume liquor store owners were, like me, forced to deal with stupid laws. From some comments in these stories, they're very willing participants. Makes me want to go out of my way to avoid them.

If I do end up in an Oklahoma liquor store anytime soon, I'm going to spend more time complaining about stupid smile than buying, because apparently liquor store owners think the status quo is A-OK.

B. How in the hell would we have less selection? That's so far from reality and not even possible.

There's a crowdsourced spreadsheet of brewery availability by state out there.

The number of breweries by state (obviously it's not perfect, but it's close):
Texas 124
Missouri 123
Kansas 113
Arkansas 72
Oklahoma 68

It's really pretty simply - the status quo is comfortable and designed to benefit the established players.  Any change to our rigged system would mean liquor stores would have to compete harder and better to be successful.  That may mean staying open later or being more creative in how they do business.  I'm not sure when or why some folks came to the conclusion that it's the state's responsiblity to assure Ms. Stewart of a profit selling liquor.  For that matter, why does Okla. protect in-state liquor store owners but allow all this darn out-of-state competition in other areas?  Oklahoma's screwed up liquor laws are so intertwined we need to rescind them all (yes, that means state constitutional amendments) and start fresh from scratch.  I won't be holding my breath until that happens.

[Red Arrow]

I'm not sure when or why some folks came to the conclusion that it's the state's responsiblity to assure Ms. Stewart of a profit selling liquor. 

The liquor industry must have used the same lawyers as the electric and natural gas utilities.

[Conan71]

The liquor industry must have used the same lawyers as the electric and natural gas utilities.

Hey, now there's an idea!  Let the Corporation Commission regulate alcohol in the state 

[DolfanBob]

QT's Mike Thornbrugh is "The Man" ! He is exactly right in that article. And where does she get that one owner can only have one location. B&B Liquor Warehouse(Which is the Bomb) just opened up their third store here in B.A. Are all three different owners ?
Obama did it and so can Oklahoma Liquor Laws. "CHANGE" we need it now.

[Hoss]

Hey, now there's an idea!  Let the Corporation Commission regulate alcohol in the state 

Because they've done so well with everything el...wait, what?

[Red Arrow]

QT's Mike Thornbrugh is "The Man" ! He is exactly right in that article. And where does she get that one owner can only have one location. B&B Liquor Warehouse(Which is the Bomb) just opened up their third store here in B.A. Are all three different owners ?
Obama did it and so can Oklahoma Liquor Laws. "CHANGE" we need it now.

I've heard that one store / one owner deal too.  I heard that Parkhill's South (at 101st & Memorial just north of the QT) is owned by Mrs. Parkhill, not Mr. (Fred?) Parkhill to keep it legal.