Another stab at liquor law reform

[Hoss]

Brian Howe, spokesman for Oklahomans for Modern Laws, said his group is putting finishing touches on a possible ballot language that would allow wine and single-strength beer to be sold in grocery and convenience stores of a certain size.

Howe said his group tried to get the measure pushed through the legislature during the past session, but a task force formed to explore the issue disbanded after meeting only twice.

"Now, the focus is on the initiative effort, and I think it's the only opportunity, to be honest," he said. "Basically, the liquor lobby lined the task force with our opponents. ... It never really had a chance."

"We think there's strong evidence this will pass," he said. "Whether it's next year or 10 years from now, it's going to happen."

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-group-puts-finishing-touches-on-liquor-ballot-language/article/3632742#ixzz1gqWPeFhJ

Yeah, Eric (Marshall) was talking some of this while I was up at brewery today obtaining some Marshall schwag.  I said something about the arcane Oklahoma alcohol laws and my disdain for ABLE; he said 'there is legislation being introduced as we speak' and he didn't really expound upon that.

[DTowner]

The intiative route is the only way these changes will ever happen, but opponentes will way outspend supporters.  The nonsense spouted by those on the recent study committee will only be the tip of the stupid things and scare tactics we wiill hear if this goes to a vote.  Keep in mind, the initiative a few years ago to let liquor stores open on election day passed with only a small majority.

[TheTed]

Is there some legal restrictions on politicking by bars/breweries/liquor store owners?

I would think Marshall's/McNellie's/maybe some non-backwards liquor stores would be all about helping to modernize this stuff. But I see nothing in their stores, no facebook/twitter posts.

I would go out of my way to patronize businesses who are actually on the side of consumers in this matter. Because so many of them (liquor stores in particular) just want to maintain the status quo.

[rdj]

I visited a liquor store over the weekend that had a sign against putting wine in grocery store.

[Hoss]

I visited a liquor store over the weekend that had a sign against putting wine in grocery store.

Which one?  I'll make sure to not visit it...

[TheTed]

Which one?  I'll make sure to not visit it...

Agreed. I'd go as far to go in, pick up a bunch of stuff, "notice" the sign and storm out.

I want the various alcohol sellers to let their colors show so we can separate those who actually want progress from the obstructionists and treat each group appropriately.

[Hoss]

Agreed. I'd go as far to go in, pick up a bunch of stuff, "notice" the sign and storm out.

I want the various alcohol sellers to let their colors show so we can separate those who actually want progress from the obstructionists and treat each group appropriately.

That actually sounds like a good idea, if it wasn't a waste of my time to do it.

[RecycleMichael]

You guys are mean. Santa is watching you know.

I don't blame the guy. The liquor industry has been run this way for a long time and these guys have enjoyed a regulatory business advantage their whole business life. Liquor reform has a real chance to kill their businesses. Oh sure, the smart ones who are well located, have loyal customers through good service or are willing to advertise will survive, but others will not.

This guy is probably scared to death because he knows that his customers want convenience over almost anything else on their liquor purchases. Very few of us are going to know the prices of anything except a couple of brands and sizes. Outside of very common purchases, nobody knows the price of anything except unleaded gasoline.

Convenience is king, especially for people who live in urban areas and have many choices. Right now there are, I'm guessing 50 liquor stores in the metro area. I am guessing an equal numbers of groceries and ten times that number of convenience stores.

The guy is only guilty of trying to inform his customers that this law is scaring him and his business may be in jeopardy. He is not running ads lying (see trash issue) or pitching a tent city (see Occupy Tulsa). He has a sign in his business. You would do the same.

[Conan71]

You guys are mean. Santa is watching you know.

I don't blame the guy. The liquor industry has been run this way for a long time and these guys have enjoyed a regulatory business advantage their whole business life. Liquor reform has a real chance to kill their businesses. Oh sure, the smart ones who are well located, have loyal customers through good service or are willing to advertise will survive, but others will not.

This guy is probably scared to death because he knows that his customers want convenience over almost anything else on their liquor purchases. Very few of us are going to know the prices of anything except a couple of brands and sizes. Outside of very common purchases, nobody knows the price of anything except unleaded gasoline.

Convenience is king, especially for people who live in urban areas and have many choices. Right now there are, I'm guessing 50 liquor stores in the metro area. I am guessing an equal numbers of groceries and ten times that number of convenience stores.

The guy is only guilty of trying to inform his customers that this law is scaring him and his business may be in jeopardy. He is not running ads lying (see trash issue) or pitching a tent city (see Occupy Tulsa). He has a sign in his business. You would do the same.

50 liquor stores and 500 churches.

We don't have a drinking problem in Tulsa, we've got a religion problem!

[Townsend]

50 liquor stores and 500 churches.

We don't have a drinking problem in Tulsa, we've got a religion problem!

Amen

[Hoss]

Amen

Is it funny I find the irony in that...LOL.

[Townsend]

You guys think if we set up a tax free liquor store in every church in the state we could get some reform done?

[Conan71]

You guys think if we set up a tax free liquor store in every church in the state we could get some reform done?

Great idea Senator Townsend.

[Nik]

Not necessarily.  Although it appears this lawsuit is filed in federal court in Texas, any ruling would not be binding on federal (or state courts) in Oklahoma, particularly as it would be interpreting a Texas statute.  If Jester King prevails, it could definitely encourage an Oklahoma brewer to file a simliar challenge and the Texas decision could be persuasive, but that does not mean you get the same outcome in Oklahoma.  Of course, that assume Jester King prevails.

Jester King has prevailed.

http://beernews.org/2011/12/judge-rules-texas-abc-regulations-unconstitutional/

So, who's gonna take up the case here in OK?

[DTowner]

You guys are mean. Santa is watching you know.

I don't blame the guy. The liquor industry has been run this way for a long time and these guys have enjoyed a regulatory business advantage their whole business life. Liquor reform has a real chance to kill their businesses. Oh sure, the smart ones who are well located, have loyal customers through good service or are willing to advertise will survive, but others will not.

This guy is probably scared to death because he knows that his customers want convenience over almost anything else on their liquor purchases. Very few of us are going to know the prices of anything except a couple of brands and sizes. Outside of very common purchases, nobody knows the price of anything except unleaded gasoline.

Convenience is king, especially for people who live in urban areas and have many choices. Right now there are, I'm guessing 50 liquor stores in the metro area. I am guessing an equal numbers of groceries and ten times that number of convenience stores.

The guy is only guilty of trying to inform his customers that this law is scaring him and his business may be in jeopardy. He is not running ads lying (see trash issue) or pitching a tent city (see Occupy Tulsa). He has a sign in his business. You would do the same.

Exactly - how many business owners would actively support a change in the law that might put them out of business, or at least shrink their margins and increase their costs?  I think Oklahoma's liquor laws are dumb, archiac, anti-consumer and anti-free market.  But if I had invested my life savings in a business based on the existing system, I would not support radically changing that system in ways that could wipe out my investment.

What angers me are the distortions, half-truths and outright lies that will be used to oppose any change to the laws.  Unfortunately, the individual owners will hide behind industry groups and trade associations to fund the opposition to change and that makes it hard to hold any one individual accountable.