Making the Case for Medical Marijuana

[patric]

I know several people here that are using CBD oil for arthritic and other chronic pain (mainly lower back pain) with great success and a couple of them have actually gotten off pills for pain relief. As for the strength, most of the pot shops here essentially custom make blends for people by starting out with a known strength and work up from that point.

If it gets people off of opioids and NSAID's I think it's a great idea.

One friend I have swears the CBD oil he gets from a local vape shop has eliminated his Petit Mal seizures.  Maybe so, maybe a placebo effect.. He's too "rich" for Obamacare and too poor to see a PCP on any sort of regular basis so its a leap of faith.
I do wonder if the over-the-counter CBD oil from vape shops is even the real thing...one of those times when one might welcome a moderate amount of government regulation.

Just not too much.  Conan's "crafted chocolate chip cookie," as well as the infused gummy bears etc. are targets of so much deliberate misinformation, mostly from entities on the receiving end of grant money that can be traced back to Big Pharma or Anheuser-Busch.

[Hoss]

I know several people here that are using CBD oil for arthritic and other chronic pain (mainly lower back pain) with great success and a couple of them have actually gotten off pills for pain relief. As for the strength, most of the pot shops here essentially custom make blends for people by starting out with a known strength and work up from that point.

If it gets people off of opioids and NSAID's I think it's a great idea.

And that mindset is why it will be a fight.  Big pharma is feeling threatened.  Unless they can get in on the cultivation, they'll fight this tooth and nail via lobbying.

[Conan71]

And that mindset is why it will be a fight.  Big pharma is feeling threatened.  Unless they can get in on the cultivation, they'll fight this tooth and nail via lobbying.

I don't understand why they would fight it when they can develop a great revenue stream making extracts or developing new strains.  Someone is making good money off acetylsalicylic acid and other NSAIDs.  This literally looks like a wonder drug and the side effects are minimal.

[patric]

And that mindset is why it will be a fight.  Big pharma is feeling threatened.  Unless they can get in on the cultivation, they'll fight this tooth and nail via lobbying.

Atlanta's city council decided unanimously to decriminalize marijuana Monday night. They voted 15-0 to make the penalty for possession of one ounce or less a $75 fine — a move that aims to neutralize uneven policing and enforcement of drug laws in the city.

Previously:

    Washington, D.C. passed Initiative 71, which made it legal for adults 21 years of age or older to possess less than two ounces of marijuana after February 26, 2015.
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania passed a law, which took effect at the beginning of 2016, that makes possession of less than an ounce punishable with a $25 fine. Those caught smoking marijuana and in possession of less than an ounce face a $100 fine.
    Kansas City voters approved a measure in April that lowered fines to $25 and removed jail time for possession of 35 grams of cannabis or less.
http://fortune.com/2017/10/03/list-of-cities-that-decriminalized-marijuana/

[TeeDub]

Sounds like a great idea.   Who wants to propose that to GT so that it can start to get traction?

Anyone know how much the city makes in fines vs. housing costs/etc. on municipal marijuana charges?

[patric]

Sounds like a great idea.   Who wants to propose that to GT so that it can start to get traction?

Anyone know how much the city makes in fines vs. housing costs/etc. on municipal marijuana charges?

You can see by the examples there is no one-size-fits-all initiative; we would have to identify what comes closest to our community standards. 
I can see where public consumption would be a no-go but sitting on your couch at home before bedtime OK. 
Driving under the influence would still be banned, but we should be more scientific in how we make that determination:

Bogus Stoned Driving Arrests Highlight Dubious Methods of 'Drug Recognition Experts'
http://reason.com/blog/2017/09/28/bogus-stoned-driving-arrests-highlight-t

You are no more "under the influence" if you have residual metabolites in your system than you are drunk from a beer you drank three days ago.


Citizens of Eureka Springs and Fayetteville have voted to make adult marijuana possession offenses the lowest law enforcement priority. Marijuana continues to be illegal in those two cities, but police officers and other law officials don't make enforcing cannabis laws a top priority.

Simple and straightforward.

[patric]

...and we are able to learn from others experience:

Cannabis legalization helps solves many problems: it eases the toll of the opioid epidemic; it creates jobs; it generates tax revenue; and it keeps cannabis out of the hands of minors. But for all the good cannabis does, we can't lose sight of public health concerns that must be solved in order to successfully implant legalization across the U.S. and beyond.
https://www.leafly.com/news/health/study-finds-top-5-causes-of-cannabis-related-emergency-visits

[dbacksfan 2.0]

So here is how the first distribution of taxes from pot sales was distributed.

The checks are in the mail.
That's the message the Oregon Department of Revenue sent Friday when it announced it will pay out $85 million in marijuana taxes for schools, public health, police and local governments by next week.
The payouts represent the first distributions of state marijuana tax revenues since Oregon opened its legal recreational cannabis market.

Oregon collected a total of $108.6 million in state and local taxes between Jan. 4, 2016, and Aug. 31, 2017. The state put $9.56 million toward the Oregon Liquor Control Commission's "start-up costs" for regulating the industry and toward the Department of Revenue's work to collect the taxes.
The rest was divvied up according to a formula spelled out by law: The state school fund gets 40 percent, or $34 million; mental health, alcoholism and drug services get 20 percent, or $17 million; Oregon State Police get 15 percent, or $12.75 million, and the Oregon Health Authority gets 5 percent, which comes to $4.25 million.
Anthony Johnson, the chief petitioner of Measure 91, which legalized recreational cannabis sales in Oregon, said the amount of tax revenue exceeded supporters' early projections. He hopes the idea of marijuana taxes flowing into schools and public health and safety spur other states to legalize marijuana, he said.
"I am glad to hear that the revenue is finally being distributed," Johnson said. "This is what the voters intended. It shows that legalizing and regulating cannabis can help generate revenue for important governmental services."

http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2017/10/oregon_pays_out_85_million_in_1.html

[cannon_fodder]

So, a net of $85 million in additional tax revenue (after the costs of enforcement).  What other costs/benefits?

The number of people accused of driving under the influence of marijuana increased by 31 people.
http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2016/06/oregon_marks_1_year_anniversar.html

Studies suggest high school kids may be avoiding binge drinking in favor of marijuana:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/06/marijuana-legalization-college-students/530607/

There were 10,000+ less people receiving citations for simple possession of marijuana.

There were 2,000+ less people arrested for possession of marijuana.   
http://www.politifact.com/oregon/statements/2014/jul/18/new-approach-oregon/were-12808-people-oregon-arrested-marijuana-relate/
http://www.oregon.gov/osp/CJIS/docs/2013%20Annual%20Report%20-%20All%20sections-revised-08-06-15.pdf

2500 new jobs in one year, with an economic impact of $200,000,000 in year 1.  Expected to ultimately create 12,000 jobs when fully implemented (including research and production).
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2016/05/19/oregon-marijuana-jobs/84633414/

Signs that legalized marijuana might reduce opiate abuse (too early to draw a conclusion):
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/legalized-marijuana-could-help-curb-opioid-epidemic-study-finds-n739301


That's about all I could find:

Positives:
Job creators.
Hundreds of millions in economic impact.
Far fewer resources spent on arrests.
$100+ million in new tax revenue (counting payroll taxes).

Neutral?
High school kids switching fro binge drinking to marijuana.  Kids smoking marijuana certainly isn't good, but neither is binge drinking.

Negatives:
+31 people accused of impaired driving.


Obviously there will be more longer term studies.  But States like Oklahoma are being provided with a great opportunity to sit back and watch how others do it. What works, what doesn't.  Then compare it to the status quo and make an informed decision. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

Neutral?
High school kids switching fro binge drinking to marijuana.  Kids smoking marijuana certainly isn't good, but neither is binge drinking.

Obviously there will be more longer term studies.  But States like Oklahoma are being provided with a great opportunity to sit back and watch how others do it. What works, what doesn't.  Then compare it to the status quo and make an informed decision.  

Switching from binge drinking to marijuana is NOT neutral.  If she had been smoking a joint, Laura Bush would have been much less likely to kill her high school sweetheart in a drunk driving event.  It is an improvement (Pro).


As for Oklahoma making an informed decision - even with massive amounts of data about what works and what doesn't - that ain't gonna happen.  We know what happens when you gut education, but we still are doing it in wholesale fashion.  And doing nothing to correct the problem even years into it.   Unless you can figure out a way to keep all the 'mouth-breathers' at home on election day and limit voting to people with a thought process.  (And no, it doesn't have to be a 'liberal' thought process - see how Kansas is trying to recover from their insanity with a conservative majority.  It just takes real thought.)

[rebound]

Switching from binge drinking to marijuana is NOT neutral.  If she had been smoking a joint, Laura Bush would have been much less likely to kill her high school sweetheart in a drunk driving event.  It is an improvement (Pro).

As for Oklahoma making an informed decision - even with massive amounts of data about what works and what doesn't - that ain't gonna happen.  We know what happens when you gut education, but we still are doing it in wholesale fashion.  And doing nothing to correct the problem even years into it.   Unless you can figure out a way to keep all the 'mouth-breathers' at home on election day and limit voting to people with a thought process.  (And no, it doesn't have to be a 'liberal' thought process - see how Kansas is trying to recover from their insanity with a conservative majority.  It just takes real thought.)

Man, we really need an UpVote, or +1 type thing for this site.   

I just made the Kansas comparison last night in a discussion.  KS hit bottom hard, and is now having to figure how to do it right, or as close as they can get.   OK hasn't quite hit bottom yet, but we are getting closer...

[Conan71]

So, a net of $85 million in additional tax revenue (after the costs of enforcement).  What other costs/benefits?

The number of people accused of driving under the influence of marijuana increased by 31 people.
http://www.oregonlive.com/marijuana/index.ssf/2016/06/oregon_marks_1_year_anniversar.html

Studies suggest high school kids may be avoiding binge drinking in favor of marijuana:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2017/06/marijuana-legalization-college-students/530607/

There were 10,000+ less people receiving citations for simple possession of marijuana.

There were 2,000+ less people arrested for possession of marijuana.   
http://www.politifact.com/oregon/statements/2014/jul/18/new-approach-oregon/were-12808-people-oregon-arrested-marijuana-relate/
http://www.oregon.gov/osp/CJIS/docs/2013%20Annual%20Report%20-%20All%20sections-revised-08-06-15.pdf

2500 new jobs in one year, with an economic impact of $200,000,000 in year 1.  Expected to ultimately create 12,000 jobs when fully implemented (including research and production).
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/nation-now/2016/05/19/oregon-marijuana-jobs/84633414/

Signs that legalized marijuana might reduce opiate abuse (too early to draw a conclusion):
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/legalized-marijuana-could-help-curb-opioid-epidemic-study-finds-n739301


That's about all I could find:

Positives:
Job creators.
Hundreds of millions in economic impact.
Far fewer resources spent on arrests.
$100+ million in new tax revenue (counting payroll taxes).

Neutral?
High school kids switching fro binge drinking to marijuana.  Kids smoking marijuana certainly isn't good, but neither is binge drinking.

Negatives:
+31 people accused of impaired driving.


Obviously there will be more longer term studies.  But States like Oklahoma are being provided with a great opportunity to sit back and watch how others do it. What works, what doesn't.  Then compare it to the status quo and make an informed decision. 

Any thoughts on the impact of local and county municipalities losing the revenue on possession and simple possession fines?  Just curious how this trades out with the tax revenue benefits. 

The decades-long prohibition on MJ has been a huge failure and ruined many lives. I'm thinking primarily the lives wasted by sending small time dealers to prison for years, people turning to other, more deleterious substances to control pain or anxiety and who have died as a result.  Hopefully, Oklahoma will see the light one of these days.  You can take something which costs the state millions in enforcement and incarceration costs every year and turn it into a tax windfall.  As CF points out, a whopping 31 more people were arrested for driving under the influence of it.  You could have had a marginal increase like that in one year even if it were still banned.

[cannon_fodder]

I thought about the loss of fine revenue - but with that lost revenue comes decreased expenditures on enforcement, courts, and lockups when fines aren't paid. With 10k tickets, even if they netted $100 off of each one the result is only $1mil in revenue.  Each ticket would have to net $10k (and be paid in full) to make it a break even from a pure revenue standpoint.

A quick search didn't turn up what the fine used to be, and of course there isn't likely to be a net result in the data anyway.

[patric]

I thought about the loss of fine revenue - but with that lost revenue comes decreased expenditures on enforcement, courts, and lockups when fines aren't paid. With 10k tickets, even if they netted $100 off of each one the result is only $1mil in revenue.  Each ticket would have to net $10k (and be paid in full) to make it a break even from a pure revenue standpoint.

A quick search didn't turn up what the fine used to be, and of course there isn't likely to be a net result in the data anyway.

We are constantly told voters want more cops on the street.  Trimming the bloat out of elite drug task force assignments might sound good to everyone except the police in elite drug task forces.
Hiring more cops sounds logical but some academy years result in fewer patrol officers - not more - because as soon as a new recruit moves into a patrol position a cop with seniority moves up, into specialty positions like prostitution and drugs.  That revolving-door approach provides an excuse for not making better use of our resources.

As for what revenue might be in jeopardy...

Cops and prosecutors will have jobs whether weed is legal or not, but Mason Tvert, spokesperson for the Marijuana Policy Project, a group that is coordinating and financing legalization campaigns across the U.S., noted that millions of dollars worth of anti-narcotics funding are potentially at stake. And whether the campaign contributions are coming from a pharmaceutical company or a prison guard union, he said, keeping marijuana illegal often boosts donors' bottom lines — and ensures that nonviolent users and suppliers will keep ending up behind bars.

"These people are trying to basically allow the continued criminalization of thousands and thousands of adults in order to continue making money," Tvert said. "That's kinda shady." https://news.vice.com/story/heres-who-bankrolls-the-fight-against-marijuana-legalization


Its no surprise that organized crime is donating to police unions to stop marijuana legalization, as well as the alcohol and pharmaceutical lobbies, but the list now includes casinos, the trucking unions and donors like U-Haul.
http://fortune.com/2016/10/19/marijuana-legalization-opponents-funders


A maker of deadly painkillers is bankrolling the opposition to legal marijuana in Arizona
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/09/09/a-maker-of-deadly-painkillers-is-bankrolling-the-opposition-to-legal-marijuana-in-arizona

[patric]

We know what happens when you gut education, but we still are doing it in wholesale fashion.  And doing nothing to correct the problem even years into it.

But they need that education money to fight "The War" and any efforts to reign in its excesses. 

"Oklahoma is bleeding teachers and cutting services to the mentally ill while wasting hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars on mass incarceration of nonviolent offenders," Steele said.

"Instead of wasting money on failed policies that don't make us safer, Oklahoma voters have clearly stated they favor utilizing taxpayer funds more efficiently to actually help Oklahomans and increase public safety," he added.
http://newsok.com/we-are-going-to-have-to-stop-a-lot-of-legislation-oklahoma-sheriffs-group-says-of-2018-session/article/5569052

On a local level, our mayor may very well be in favor of joining other cities who no longer regard private cannabis use as a law enforcement priority, but he also may be politically handcuffed by powerful, un-elected entities telling him what he must do to be re-elected.