Three charts to show your right wing brother in law.

[Conan71]

Oh, puleeezzzeee!!!

You do realize that Clinton's was the largest, longest and added the most jobs.  (The economic expansion that is...)

Kennedy/Johnson was second.

Reagan's was third.  With the largest tax hikes in the history of the world right after his tax cuts.  But somehow that little fact never seems to make it into the propaganda pages of "The Script".  Why do you suppose that is??  Yeah, he was the only privileged one who somehow had the "right" to make massive deficits, because no one else would continue it.   What is that supposed to mean?

And the 70's trainwreck was a direct result of wage/price controls that Nixon (another Republican) put in place, plus the winding down of the war.  Ever notice how the economy always goes into recession after a war?  Ford tried to help and it didn't work, and Jimmie just got bulldozed by it.  But hey, nothing like a little revisionist history to cater to "The Scripters".

You brought something to mind, the Reagan expansion was the longest peacetime expansion the country had seen to that point.  I don't see how you can point to the failures of the Nixon/Ford admins as well as winding down of another MIC "project" yet completely ignore Carter's horrible handling of the economy.  He came close to making Coolidge look like a genius.  

And as is pointed out on another thread, Congress controls the purse strings.  Have you forgotten that Congress approved budgets in excess of the President's proposals every year Reagan was in office with the exception of FY 1984?  Certainly Congress doesn't deserve all the blame for the deficits of the time, but neither does the president.

I just find it interesting that the liberal think-tank which worships at the feet of John Maynard Keynes has consistently shat upon the economic policies of the Reagan administration when many of Keynes concepts were, in fact, employed to bring us out of the malaise of the late '70's and early '80's.

[AquaMan]

Conan, contemporaries of Reagan bring up his massive debt compilation because it shows the hypocrisy of current Reagan idol worshipers. Investment by the government in the economy works and Reagan proved it. It may have been a spend crazy congress at the time but he didn't present any balanced budgets either. Current Republican leaders tend to start mumbling when all that is brought up. Buchanan was the originator of the "greatest (peacetime) economic growth the country had ever had" up to the Clinton administration when that phrase became history. Peacetime. I guess he forgot the Cold War, and the other little skirmishes we engaged in while feeding the MIC. Honestly, just like Kennedy, Reagan was a good, not great, president who filled a need the country had at the time.

I do agree with you that blaming a president for all that happens on his watch is just crazy. The blame game is for bumper stickers. That is why I am surprised by your opinion of Carter. The times were such that most any president at the time would have more than he could handle. Carter's first order of business was to try and return honesty and integrity to the office. He did, but it was in the midst of an environment that was rife with a lack of both of those qualities in business and politics. He ended up looking dim, naive and powerless. The press treated him worse than the Bushes or Obama. Carter was just one more in a long list of leaders who totally underestimated the complexity of the office and the dedication by opponents to destroying whoever holds it.

[Conan71]

That is why I am surprised by your opinion of Carter.

You and I always have and always will look through opposite ends of the binoculars, AquaMan. 

[we vs us]

Keynes was explicitly addressing what to do during downturns, especially in downturns severe enough to lead to the paralysis of private markets.  He was writing during -- and to solve -- the Great Depression; this is why he gets trotted out so often now, since this is the worst economy since that era.

When Keynesians talk about deficit spending, they're talking about it solely in the context of an emergency use of government capital. They're not talking about using deficit spending in times of expansion or even in the slightly bad times.  It's only in the worst cases.  Some of the same mechanisms work in all times (investment in your nation, turns out, is usually a good thing), but the massive public investment into government programs like the WPA, the CCC, etc are all specific to the worst downturns. 

[Conan71]

Keynes was explicitly addressing what to do during downturns, especially in downturns severe enough to lead to the paralysis of private markets.  He was writing during -- and to solve -- the Great Depression; this is why he gets trotted out so often now, since this is the worst economy since that era.

When Keynesians talk about deficit spending, they're talking about it solely in the context of an emergency use of government capital. They're not talking about using deficit spending in times of expansion or even in the slightly bad times.  It's only in the worst cases.  Some of the same mechanisms work in all times (investment in your nation, turns out, is usually a good thing), but the massive public investment into government programs like the WPA, the CCC, etc are all specific to the worst downturns. 

And pretty much what we can see in the graph that JeffM posted as deficits started to narrow in 1987 and 88.  What Reagan walked into in 1981 would be characterized as an emergency.  I don't have time at the moment to look up tax receipts and see how much of that was increased tax revenue due to the expansion or constraint in spending (like that would ever happen in DC).

One other interesting aspect of Reagan's presidency: I don't recall him ever blaming his predecessor for the mess after he took office.

[AquaMan]

You and I always have and always will look through opposite ends of the binoculars, AquaMan. 

No doubt. More likely a periscope.

[azbadpuppy]

One other interesting aspect of Reagan's presidency: I don't recall him ever blaming his predecessor for the mess after he took office.

"The problems we inherited were far worse than most inside and out of government had expected; the recession was deeper than most inside and out of government had predicted. Curing those problems has taken more time and a higher toll than any of us wanted." - Ronald reagan, 1983 State of the Union Address

"For decades we have piled deficit upon deficit, mortgaging our future and our children's future for the temporary convenience of the present.  To continue this long trend is to guarantee tremendous social, cultural, political, and economic upheavals.  You and I, as individuals, can, by borrowing, live beyond our means, but only for a limited period of time.  Why, then, should we think that collectively, as a nation, we're not bound by that same limitation?  We must act today in order to preserve tomorrow.  And let there be no misunderstanding:  We are going to begin to act, beginning today."-Ronald Reagan, in his inaugural address, January 20, 1981

And the irony of this statement should be obvious:

"A trillion dollars would be a stack of $1,000 bills 67 miles high."
--President Reagan warning in February 1981 that the national debt, accumulated over the United States' 200 year history, is approaching $1 trillion.  (Under Reagan, the national debt would nearly triple to $2.9 trillion.)

ALL presidents blame their predecessors...even Reagan.

[heironymouspasparagus]

You and I always have and always will look through opposite ends of the binoculars, AquaMan.  

Turn them around and look through the correct end, then.


It took 200 years to get to about 900 billion.  Then 8 years to get to about 3 trillion.  How is that so difficult to grasp??

The problems Reagan inherited were directly from the Nixon years.  The wind down of war and its resulting recession.  Wage and price controls, which we have shown repeatedly are catastrophic to an economy. 

History people!!  It IS important!!

[Conan71]

And here's a chart to show to your Obama-hunching brother-in-law:


Azbad, wow, one instance where he talks about what he's walked into during the SOTU two years into his first term, another which simply talks about fiscal mistakes of many decades as he's inaugurated.

I don't recall him using Carter for an excuse at every turn.  That's been the Obama M.O. since he took office.  Continued stagnant economy under his failed policies to mitigate it: Blame Bush.  Oil spill in the Gulf: Blame Bush.  Financial crisis in Europe: Blame Bush.  Fails to back up his campaign promises on Gitmo, Iraq, and Afghanistan: Blame Bush.

Are you seeing a pattern yet?

[Gaspar]

These are not the graphs you are looking for.



Lets just forget the graphs and charts for a moment, and use liberal language.


Do you feel that the economy has improved over the last 3 years?

Have you received everything that was promised you?

Has president Obama been successful in exacting the revenge against the wealthy that you desired?

Does "Hope & Change" and "Yes We Can" still give you the same thrill (up your leg)?

Are you willing to bet everything on four more years of this?

[Townsend]

Are you willing to bet everything on four more years of this?

, etc...

[Gaspar]

, etc...

3 of a kind is a strong hand against a 2-7 offsuit. . .or stuffed suit for that matter.

[Townsend]

3 of a kind is a strong hand against a 2-7 offsuit. . .or stuffed suit for that matter.

You can load your hand with any number of these folks and still lose the pot.

[Conan71]

You can load your hand with any number of these folks and still lose the pot.

Did you say "pot"?

[we vs us]

So, genuinely curious:  do you -- Conan, Gaspar -- think that a Perry presidency is more desirable than another 4 years of Obama?