Almost One Year Ago Today

[Gaspar]

It seemed more like you wanted to imply that people who aren't concerned with regulation or taxes are sleazebags.

No I simply wanted to demonstrate that these are people with dependencies on current policies, that is all.  I'm sure there are many businesses out there that have profited from many of the crisis situations developed recently.

[AquaMan]

Best thing you have ever said.

Taxing the poor or the middle class is actually a tax, because they don't have the ability to pass that expense on to anyone.  Taxing the small business owner or the wealthy becomes a tax on the poor and the middle class because they are the ones consuming the majority of goods and services and occupying the majority of elastic workforce positions.

Factor in that consumption decreases as age increases. I'll never buy another rake, another shovel, another hand saw etc. So the bulk of cost of living increases falls on under 35 and over 60. The former as they set up housekeeping and the latter as they suffer reduced income. Leaves very little in the middle unaffected.

At least those under 35, college educated or skilled, are at the growing stages of their income. Over the years I have heard varying excuses for why the burgeoning middle class could not keep moving up; low productivity, inflation, stagflation, technology changes, trickle down failure, oil dependency, debt, war, ad nauseum. Blah, blah, blah. Truth is you better make as much money as you can and invest long term before marriage and age 35 because after that everything and everyone conspires to take it away from you. My generation is currently learning that the hard way.

[Conan71]

Factor in that consumption decreases as age increases. I'll never buy another rake, another shovel, another hand saw etc. So the bulk of cost of living increases falls on under 35 and over 60. The former as they set up housekeeping and the latter as they suffer reduced income. Leaves very little in the middle unaffected.

At least those under 35, college educated or skilled, are at the growing stages of their income. Over the years I have heard varying excuses for why the burgeoning middle class could not keep moving up; low productivity, inflation, stagflation, technology changes, trickle down failure, oil dependency, debt, war, ad nauseum. Blah, blah, blah. Truth is you better make as much money as you can and invest long term before marriage and age 35 because after that everything and everyone conspires to take it away from you. My generation is currently learning that the hard way.

You make it sound as if someone's destiny occurs in a vacuum and there's nothing they can do to alter or manipulate their lot in life (or their fortunes).

[Gaspar]

Factor in that consumption decreases as age increases. I'll never buy another rake, another shovel, another hand saw etc. So the bulk of cost of living increases falls on under 35 and over 60. The former as they set up housekeeping and the latter as they suffer reduced income. Leaves very little in the middle unaffected.

At least those under 35, college educated or skilled, are at the growing stages of their income. Over the years I have heard varying excuses for why the burgeoning middle class could not keep moving up; low productivity, inflation, stagflation, technology changes, trickle down failure, oil dependency, debt, war, ad nauseum. Blah, blah, blah. Truth is you better make as much money as you can and invest long term before marriage and age 35 because after that everything and everyone conspires to take it away from you. My generation is currently learning that the hard way.

I would disagree with that.  While it is very important to start to save and wealth for the future when you are young, being innovative, creative, and ambitious are the most important traits.  People that feel like the world is conspiring against them usually manifest that destiny. This may be the schism between those who grow up dependent on others (bosses, the government, unions, family, charity) and those who succeed, though they may fail a hundred times on the way.

It's true government and economic environment offers heaver burdens today, but they can be overcome, voted away, or borne on more muscular shoulders.

[Red Arrow]

Truth is you better make as much money as you can and invest long term before marriage and age 35 because after that everything and everyone conspires to take it away from you. My generation is currently learning that the hard way.

Marriage is the leading cause of divorce.

[AquaMan]

So.... you guys are probably in that middle stripe category. Between 35 and 60 with family obligations. Didn't mean to scare you. Some things just never change but appear to be new and different to each generation as they pass through. Plus ca change, plus ca changere? Excuse my poor French philosophy quotes please.

I agree with what you have said, especially you Red. Most murderers actually preferred ice cream as a youth.

Each person has to draw their own conclusions based on life experience and the advice and wisdom of those preceding whether in text or in person. Of course one's potential is only limited by their imagination. I don't mean to sound defeatist or depressive. Just real. My point is that it is folly to consider small parts of the picture. That is why choosing just one term, like middle class, is not the real picture. Its complicated by age, region, race, religion, sexuality, education and family history. To just say middle class is most effected by a tax hike is like saying mid-size cars get bad mileage. What does that mean?

I feel and act distinctly middle class yet my taxes indicate otherwise.

[Red Arrow]

I feel and act distinctly middle class yet my taxes indicate otherwise.

Not paying enough tax?

[nathanm]

No I simply wanted to demonstrate that these are people with dependencies on current policies, that is all.  I'm sure there are many businesses out there that have profited from many of the crisis situations developed recently.

All of them, really? You might want to invest in a smaller brush.

Edited to add: Success is a function of time. Look at a guy today and he might be on top of the world. Look at him tomorrow and he may have nothing. Measure again three days from now and lo and behold, he may just be successful.

[AquaMan]

Not paying enough tax?

I would relish having to pay more tax if it meant more income. I'm not one to volunteer like Warren Buffett.

[Gaspar]

All of them, really? You might want to invest in a smaller brush.

Edited to add: Success is a function of time. Look at a guy today and he might be on top of the world. Look at him tomorrow and he may have nothing. Measure again three days from now and lo and behold, he may just be successful.

I see you still embrace the liberal concept that success and wealth is a game of chance.  Successful people are "the fortunate," or the "lucky."  Well that's not true, and the longer you believe that the less you will be able to seize your own opportunities.

Success is a function of hard work, innovation, and creativity. 

[nathanm]

Success is a function of hard work, innovation, and creativity. 

..and luck, and timing, and external circumstances.

You seem to be unable to shake the false belief that hard work inevitably pays off. It often does, but it's not as simple as you'd like to make it seem. It's more akin to quantum mechanics than Newtonian physics. The best one can do is make solid plans and be prepared to implement them when the opportunity presents itself. And, of course, be watchful for ways in which you can help that opportunity to present itself.

[Gaspar]

..and luck, and timing, and external circumstances.

You seem to be unable to shake the false belief that hard work inevitably pays off.

Yes!  And I always will.  I will also instill this horrible false belief in my children.

You can consider me a liberal failure.

[AquaMan]

I see you still embrace the liberal concept that success and wealth is a game of chance.  Successful people are "the fortunate," or the "lucky."  Well that's not true, and the longer you believe that the less you will be able to seize your own opportunities.

Success is a function of hard work, innovation, and creativity. 

Yeah, well Tesla might disagree with that though Edison would say you're a genius.

Why is everything you disagree with have to be framed in terms of "liberal concepts"? This either/or, takeitorleaveit, mindset forces you into contradictory beliefs.

Wealth may be measurable to some degree but success is totally subjective. So, I am poor as dirt but still successful as I have accomplished many of the goals I set as a young man and have persevered through hardship and largesse. Sometimes I was lucky, sometimes fortunate and sometimes I seized opportunities. When all three crossed at the same time I was a freaking genius. When I failed to achieve I had to recognize that in spite of my best efforts, it just wasn't to be. Timing was often the uncontrollable variable.

Those who only believe motivational posters and who deny that luck has little to do with success simply haven't played much baseball. Those who believe that success is ONLY a function of hard work, innovation and creativity don't know the story of Tesla and Edison.

[Cats Cats Cats]

I see you still embrace the liberal concept that success and wealth is a game of chance.  Successful people are "the fortunate," or the "lucky."  Well that's not true, and the longer you believe that the less you will be able to seize your own opportunities.

Success is a function of hard work, innovation, and creativity.  

Chance leads to opportunities or lack of opportunity.  The game is rigged towards one way or the other based on who your parents are, how much money you have access to, where you live, how involved your parents are, etc.  Just the elementary school you go to can make a difference.  You don't control that.

If only the starving people in (name the country) would just work harder they would be rich.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Yes!  And I always will.  I will also instill this horrible false belief in my children.

You can consider me a liberal failure.

Just because it isn't true doesn't mean you shouldn't teach it to your children.