Elizabeth Warren Sez!

[Teatownclown]

http://front.moveon.org/the-elizabeth-warren-quote-every-american-needs-to-see/  http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/278106/elizabeth-warrens-quote-reihan-salam

"There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there — good for you!

But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that maurauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea — God bless. Keep a big hunk of it.

But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."

discuss

[AquaMan]

http://front.moveon.org/the-elizabeth-warren-quote-every-american-needs-to-see/  http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/278106/elizabeth-warrens-quote-reihan-salam

"There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own. Nobody. You built a factory out there — good for you!

But I want to be clear. You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for. You hired workers the rest of us paid to educate. You were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. You didn't have to worry that maurauding bands would come and seize everything at your factory, and hire someone to protect against this, because of the work the rest of us did. Now look, you built a factory and it turned into something terrific, or a great idea — God bless. Keep a big hunk of it.

But part of the underlying social contract is you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along."

discuss

Good luck with this. Last spring when I posted pretty much the same thing in regards to Guido's "I did it myself" routine....no one agreed with me. I still like the idea  that with enough hard work, determination, education and common sense that anyone can succeed in business. As a realist however I know its just as much, or more, a function of good luck, good timing, community support, family influence, family money, where you're born, who raised you, where you're educated and who you know. Sometimes God given talent.

[Red Arrow]

Good luck with this. Last spring when I posted pretty much the same thing in regards to Guido's "I did it myself" routine....no one agreed with me.

Probably because you, and many others, place too much emphasis on what society, family, etc has provided and not enough on an individual's will to succeed.

[Gaspar]

If our friend the successful factory owner pays more taxes than "the rest of us" and employs "the rest of us" and adheres to the same laws and regulations as "the rest of us," then why would we show such anger towards him for not paying even more?  

True, he is successful because we buy his products, and we do so because we value his products over the money that they cost.  In addition he provides jobs for us, and through the taxes he pays (far greater than the taxes we pay) he funds better schools for us to send our kids to and better road for us to drive on.  Remove him from the equation, and you reduce our quality of life.  Communities are successful because of men and women like our factory owner, not the other way around.

To turn the argument around and say that he somehow owes a debt to society beyond his taxes, and beyond the jobs and prosperity he provides for others is blatantly socialistic.  Mrs. Warren angrily implies that the success of one person detracts from the success of others and that is false.  She is an idiot of the highest magnitude.

On a more personal side, growing up my father always taught me that if you hang around successful people you will become successful, and your duty is to help others become successful, wealth has little to do with it.  I have found that to be very true.  I have also found that successful people enjoy nothing more than to help others achieve success.  They take great pride in increasing the success of everyone around them.  They enjoy wealth and the comfort and security that comes with it.  They care very little about power.

On the contrary, I have found that people who exhibit anger at the success of others enjoy nothing more than tearing down those around them.  They view successful people as obstacles and impediments.  They profess charity and aid to others, but only as a means to their own success, and only through the wallet or will of others.  They think wealth is power, but it's not the only power they covet. Their goal is power, it could be wealth, admiration, adoration, validation, worship, or publicity. They want to serve "causes" not goals, because causes provide the flavor of power that they desire without the risk of failure.

[AquaMan]

Probably because you, and many others, place too much emphasis on what society, family, etc has provided and not enough on an individual's will to succeed.

Oh, yeah, that "rugged individualism" concept. It worked fine in frontier times. Not so much now.

As a salesman on the road, I spent many years calling on businesses that were in various stages of doing very well, struggling and failing. I saw little difference in their will to succeed. In fact we used to laugh that there certainly was no correlation between knowing what you're doing and success in doing it.

[AquaMan]

If our friend the successful factory owner pays more taxes than "the rest of us" and employs "the rest of us" and adheres to the same laws and regulations as "the rest of us," then why would we show such anger towards him for not paying even more?  

True, he is successful because we buy his products, and we do so because we value his products over the money that they cost.  In addition he provides jobs for us, and through the taxes he pays (far greater than the taxes we pay) he funds better schools for us to send our kids to and better road for us to drive on.  Remove him from the equation, and you reduce our quality of life.  Communities are successful because of men and women like our factory owner, not the other way around.

To turn the argument around and say that he somehow owes a debt to society beyond his taxes, and beyond the jobs and prosperity he provides for others is blatantly socialistic.  Mrs. Warren angrily implies that the success of one person detracts from the success of others and that is false.  She is an idiot of the highest magnitude.

On a more personal side, growing up my father always taught me that if you hang around successful people you will become successful, and your duty is to help others become successful, wealth has little to do with it.  I have found that to be very true.  I have also found that successful people enjoy nothing more than to help others achieve success.  They take great pride in increasing the success of everyone around them.  They enjoy wealth and the comfort and security that comes with it.  They care very little about power.

On the contrary, I have found that people who exhibit anger at the success of others enjoy nothing more than tearing down those around them.  They view successful people as obstacles and impediments.  They profess charity and aid to others, but only as a means to their own success, and only through the wallet or will of others.  They think wealth is power, but it's not the only power they covet. Their goal is power, it could be wealth, admiration, adoration, validation, worship, or publicity. They want to serve "causes" not goals, because causes provide the flavor of power that they desire without the risk of failure.

That there ^ is some weird stuff.

[Conan71]

Oh, yeah, that "rugged individualism" concept. It worked fine in frontier times. Not so much now.

As a salesman on the road, I spent many years calling on businesses that were in various stages of doing very well, struggling and failing. I saw little difference in their will to succeed. In fact we used to laugh that there certainly was no correlation between knowing what you're doing and success in doing it.

Then your take-away wasn't very objective.  Of course there is a correlation.

Success in business is a combination of knowledge, motivation, attention to detail, attention to customer service, putting the right people in the right spots in your company, and sometimes just better survival instinct.  And a few more things I can't think of in a 30 second post

[RecycleMichael]

On a more personal side, growing up my father always taught me that if you hang around successful people you will become successful...

Really? It is that simple?

If only I had played stickball with the royal family. I could have been somebody.

[AquaMan]

Then your take-away wasn't very objective.  Of course there is a correlation.

Success in business is a combination of knowledge, motivation, attention to detail, attention to customer service, putting the right people in the right spots in your company, and sometimes just better survival instinct.  And a few more things I can't think of in a 30 second post

And your estimation of my take away is very subjective.

There can be a correlation and business college convinces a lot of people of that otherwise no one would attend. My road experience enlightened me that the most aggressive, the luckiest, the most dishonest, the most instinctual entrepreneur could overcome deficits in all the other criteria you listed and usually did. Its good to have those criteria in the long run for your personal self esteem and salvation but simply not necessary to succeed in business. Business is like nature; amoral, unforgiving of weakness and rewarding to  survivors.

Which reminds me, ever seen the movie/play "How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying"? That and "Tin Men" are very instructional.

[we vs us]

Then your take-away wasn't very objective.  Of course there is a correlation.

Success in business is a combination of knowledge, motivation, attention to detail, attention to customer service, putting the right people in the right spots in your company, and sometimes just better survival instinct.  And a few more things I can't think of in a 30 second post

You forgot luck luck luck and luck.

Also:  luck. 

[we vs us]

If our friend the successful factory owner pays more taxes than "the rest of us" and employs "the rest of us" and adheres to the same laws and regulations as "the rest of us," then why would we show such anger towards him for not paying even more?  

True, he is successful because we buy his products, and we do so because we value his products over the money that they cost.  In addition he provides jobs for us, and through the taxes he pays (far greater than the taxes we pay) he funds better schools for us to send our kids to and better road for us to drive on.  Remove him from the equation, and you reduce our quality of life.  Communities are successful because of men and women like our factory owner, not the other way around.

To turn the argument around and say that he somehow owes a debt to society beyond his taxes, and beyond the jobs and prosperity he provides for others is blatantly socialistic.  Mrs. Warren angrily implies that the success of one person detracts from the success of others and that is false.  She is an idiot of the highest magnitude.

On a more personal side, growing up my father always taught me that if you hang around successful people you will become successful, and your duty is to help others become successful, wealth has little to do with it.  I have found that to be very true.  I have also found that successful people enjoy nothing more than to help others achieve success.  They take great pride in increasing the success of everyone around them.  They enjoy wealth and the comfort and security that comes with it.  They care very little about power.

On the contrary, I have found that people who exhibit anger at the success of others enjoy nothing more than tearing down those around them.  They view successful people as obstacles and impediments.  They profess charity and aid to others, but only as a means to their own success, and only through the wallet or will of others.  They think wealth is power, but it's not the only power they covet. Their goal is power, it could be wealth, admiration, adoration, validation, worship, or publicity. They want to serve "causes" not goals, because causes provide the flavor of power that they desire without the risk of failure.

I actually found this to be a relatively succinct description of the modern GOP ethos.

. . . . as radical as it actually is.

[AquaMan]

  http://www.nationalreview.com/agenda/278106/elizabeth-warrens-quote-reihan-salam

If you didn't follow this link, you should. Salam makes a very interesting and well thought out "rebuttal" which I include a quote below. Dang, I wish more conservatives would think like he does.  But be sure to read the first remark after his essay which correctly points out that Salam (and Gaspar) have missed the point of the quote.

Salam, "I think it is very, very true that no one in this country, and indeed no one in any country, managed to become rich on her own. Some people become rich by virtue of being born into the right family, or by owning valuable real estate or some other legal entitlement, like a patent or copyright, protected by the state. And then there are people who, in various ways, become rich by serving other people, creating new and distinctive products and processes, etc."

I can't disagree with that quote though I would add my personal list of determinants.

[Gaspar]

If you don't get it, you don't get it. 

It's probably not your fault.

[AquaMan]

Would expect nothing less than your typical arrogance. 

I'm guessing you didn't hit the other link...or didn't like what they said.

[swake]

If you don't get it, you don't get it. 

It's probably not your fault.

Hey Gasp, why don't you go and mock some more murder victims. That's more your moral speed than understanding this concept.