Is The Occupy Wall Street Movement an Answer to The Tea Party Movement?

[Townsend]

A moment ago it was the live camera following the dump trucks.  You're a big boy.  Find a link.

. . .and stop the trolling.

You have become that guy at the end of the bar that has to chime in to other people's conversations.

It's called a forum.

I think people who post crap they just make up are closer to troll status.

[Red Arrow]

Donny Deutsch is, actually, not a rabid lefty.   

I don't know who Donny Deutsch is but pardon me if I take your statement about his leftness with a shaker of salt.

[Cats Cats Cats]

It's called a forum.

I think people who post crap they just make up are closer to troll status.

Didn't make it up probably.  Just wasn't smart enough to realize that a LIVE stream of CNN didn't play the same thing an hour later.

[Gaspar]

http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/10/14/occupy-wall-street-protesters-vow-to-block-park-cleaning/

[Gaspar]

Now this is the behind the scenes cyber violence that you do not see.  Unfortunately the people that OWS is aligned with are Hackers that aren't good enough to get a real job, so they have been easy to foil and arrest.


#opLightHouse (FAILED) using NYC Subways to create FlashMobs and havoc through the city on Sept 17, 2011: see http://privatepaste.com/download/267076bdbc/operationLH-updateUno
#RefRef Denial of Service tool release (FAILED) was designed to crash banks and NYSE, but the tool was never released: see http://www.geekosystem.com/anon-to-launch-new-weapon/; http://www.iss.net/threats/434.html
September 20th FAILED attacks against NYSE, NYPD, NYC.GOV, NYPD Retirees, Federal Reserve: see http://www.slideshare.net/robinsage/anonymous-occupy-wall-street-attacks
#DayOfVengence (Sept 27th) (FAILED) because FBI arrested the operation leader CommanderX prior to the attack: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20110912-10391695.html

And. . .if you want some fun, I have a CSV file of all of the emails from the organizers to the members of the various groups.  Every word!

Here you go: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/23835520/OWS-Mailing-List.CSV
It's 13mb, but you can do some rally fun searching.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Look at the overall rates, not just the marginal rates. 

For us little guys, the bottom portion of our income is taxed at lower rates and is a significant portion of our income. 

Overall rates - exactly what I have been saying.  The 1%ers average 15%.  The 99%ers average 18 - 20.  Gross inequity.

The big guys bottom portion of income is taxed at lower rates, just like ours.  What is different is the break they get on the top 95% of their income that we don't.


In the deep dark past would occasionally see an article about how some CEO was only getting paid $1.00 per year, the point being to show the huge sacrifice he was making trying to "help" the company.  (I think Lee Iacocca trotted that out once...).  What they did NOT mention was the millions in bonuses and stock options that they got.  For the express purpose of avoiding paying their fair share of tax.  Today's process has been refined to the point of costing the US (us!) hundreds of billions of dollars per year.

[we vs us]

I don't know who Donny Deutsch is but pardon me if I take your statement about his leftness with a shaker of salt.

Believe it or not, I can still tell my radicals from my centrists, regardless of my politics.  Deutsch is pretty much a centrist.

[Conan71]

Overall rates - exactly what I have been saying.  The 1%ers average 15%.  The 99%ers average 18 - 20.  Gross inequity.

The big guys bottom portion of income is taxed at lower rates, just like ours.  What is different is the break they get on the top 95% of their income that we don't.


In the deep dark past would occasionally see an article about how some CEO was only getting paid $1.00 per year, the point being to show the huge sacrifice he was making trying to "help" the company.  (I think Lee Iacocca trotted that out once...).  What they did NOT mention was the millions in bonuses and stock options that they got.  For the express purpose of avoiding paying their fair share of tax.  Today's process has been refined to the point of costing the US (us!) hundreds of billions of dollars per year.

99%'ers is inaccurate considering close to half of those 99%'ers pay no federal income tax.  And still the net effective federal income tax rate after all the credits and deductions is below 15% for many of those 50% or so who do pay income taxes.

There's a gross distortion of the facts many are overlooking in this quest to make the wealthy the scapegoat for such high deficits and debt.

[Townsend]

There's a gross distortion of the facts many are overlooking

That pretty much covers everything political.

[Cats Cats Cats]

99%'ers is inaccurate considering close to half of those 99%'ers pay no federal income tax.  And still the net effective federal income tax rate after all the credits and deductions is below 15% for many of those 50% or so who do pay income taxes.

There's a gross distortion of the facts many are overlooking in this quest to make the wealthy the scapegoat for such high deficits and debt.

THe problem is that the 53% of all tax payers not paying tax don't make enough money or have deductions to not pay tax.  So when they do start paying (more than just sales and payroll taxes) it will be very minimal.  Plus any higher taxes on them is most definitely money taken directly out of the economy.

[Conan71]

That pretty much covers everything political.

And kind of like when I look in the mirror in the morning and say: "I'm dead sexy!"

[Townsend]

And kind of like when I look in the mirror in the morning and say: "I'm dead sexy!"

If this is the "doing the helicopter" morning ritual...

[Red Arrow]

I don't know how to keep the table formatting but try to align the columns under the headers in your mind.
I deleted the early years to keep this post down to one page and recent history.  Follow the link if you want more info.
Heiron

Please note the Percent of AGI paid in income taxes of the groups between 5% & 10% and lower (getting rid of the effects of upper income tax payers) and the AGI ($159,619.) to be in the top 5%.  I (lower 90%) get screwed because I'm single with no dependents but the groups below the top 5% on average are below the 15% Capital gains rate you so much dislike.


Info from Nathan's link:
http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html


Table 8
Average Tax Rate, 1980-2008 (Percent of AGI paid in income taxes)
Year   Total    Top 0.1%   Top 1%   Top 5%    Between 5% & 10%   Top 10%   Between 10% & 25%   Top 25%    Between 25% & 50%   Top 50%    Bottom 50%
2006   12.60%   21.98%   22.79%   20.68%   12.60%   18.86%   9.36%   15.95%   7.01%   13.98%   3.01%
2007   12.68%   21.46%   22.45%   20.53%   12.66%   18.79%   9.43%   15.98%   7.01%   14.03%   2.99%
2008   12.24%   22.70%   23.27%   20.70%   12.44%   18.71%   9.29%   15.68%   6.75%   13.65%   2.59%
Source: IRS                                 



Table 7
Dollar Cut-Off, 1980-2008 (Minimum AGI for tax return to fall into various percentiles; Thresholds not adjusted for inflation)
Year   Total    Top 0.1%   Top 1%    Top 5%    Top 10%    Top 25%    Top 50%
2006   0   $2,044,689   $388,806   $153,542   $108,904   $64,702   $31,987
2007   0   $2,155,365   $410,096   $160,041   $113,018   $66,532   $32,879
2008   0   $1,803,585   $380,354   $159,619   $113,799   $67,280   $33,048
Source: IRS

[Conan71]

THe problem is that the 53% of all tax payers not paying tax don't make enough money or have deductions to not pay tax.  So when they do start paying (more than just sales and payroll taxes) it will be very minimal.  Plus any higher taxes on them is most definitely money taken directly out of the economy.

I'm not making any argument for them to pay taxes if that's what you are implying.  I'm simply piercing the misconception that the wealthy 1% are paying a much lower federal tax rate than us middle class working stiffs with standard deductions, child care credits, tuition credits, IRA contributions, and all the other credits and ways to defer income they threw at us the last few years. 

[Gaspar]

If the protesters had one lick of sense they would be marching on congress, the White House, and the various regulatory entities that represent the reasons that our economy fails to recover.  Then, perhaps even folks like me could support them.