Is The Occupy Wall Street Movement an Answer to The Tea Party Movement?

[nathanm]

It should be obvious that number of employees and $ in the bank do have something to do with.....

But they shouldn't.

Hey, something you and the OWS folks agree on!

[guido911]

You seemed to imply that the number of people you employ or the amount of money in your bank account has something to do with how much say a person should get in how our government works and how our society is structured.

I didn't make the slightest reference to what would make you think that. Schiff's point was that he is kicking in more than his fair share by employing people whereas the OWS people did not. He also pointed out that he paid more in taxes than the collective surrounding him. Did you watch the video? It really is telling. I really liked the guy in the background smiling when Schiff asked the protester how many people she employed.

edited.

[guido911]

He is not 'seeming to imply'...he has stated it outright on several occasions in the context of paying taxes.

Again, I didn't get that impression at all. The OWS people were yelling about how the 1% needs to do more, and he responded deliciously. He employs 150 people and pays more taxes than everyone surrounding him in the video. The OWS people have no idea how much the "rich" are already paying or what they are doing. Instead, they are blinded by Buffett and his ilk. I read yesterday that the "1%" earn above or around $360,000.00 per year. There are some in that visit this forum that might fall into that category and that's who the 99%ers are engaging.

[Red Arrow]

Hey, something you and the OWS folks agree on!

I also agree that executive compensation is absurd.  I disagree with the solutions I have seen on the TV that the OWS folks present.  I see it kind of like brake failure in a car headed for a really solid brick wall.  Stepping on the brake isn't working but I am reasonably sure stepping on the gas is not the solution.  (Example is only intended to show that a bad solution may not be better than no solution.)

[guido911]

I also agree that executive compensation is absurd.  

Whether its absurd or not isn't something I fret over. Sheesh, baseball, basketball, and other athletes, as well as actors/entertainers make incredible amounts of money and no one is yelling at them. Fact is, it is none of my damned business how much my neighbor or anyone else makes. I do just fine right now, as I think you do too Red. Seriously, what business is it of someone else to complain about what someone earns? Do those that complain think that the company employing these "overpaid" executives are going to just give it to OWS?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Again, I didn't get that impression at all. The OWS people were yelling about how the 1% needs to do more, and he responded deliciously. He employs 150 people and pays more taxes than everyone surrounding him in the video. The OWS people have no idea how much the "rich" are already paying or what they are doing. Instead, they are blinded by Buffett and his ilk. I read yesterday that the "1%" earn above or around $360,000.00 per year. There are some in that visit this forum that might fall into that category and that's who the 99%ers are engaging.

Actually, they didn't know what the 1% are paying.  But they are beginning to realize, and that grotesque inequity has become a big motivator.

They really aren't complaining about how much someone makes, they are complaining about how little they pay comparatively.

One other dirty little secret they have not started to realize yet, is that in addition to getting the big tax break, the companies paying those 1% monies are getting a juicy big tax deduction that means the 99% are also subsidizing the taxes of the companies paying those big numbers.  Double whammy.

[patric]

Police brutality, Nate? Really? Maybe a little of this took place before the brutality ensued:

Quote
(Newser) – Hundreds of people protesting the eviction of the Occupy Oakland camp clashed with police last night. Police fired tear gas at least five times into a crowd attempting to retake the camp outside Oakland City Hall, the San Francisco Chronicle reports. The protesters regrouped after each tear-gassing, with some throwing paint, bottles, and other missiles at police in riot gear. A police spokesman says they had no choice but to use tear gas to protect officers, two of whom were injured by thrown paint and chemicals.
I may have issues with the police, but OWS attacking them and later b!tch about brutality after the police defend themselves (or retaliated) ain't going to fly with me.

It's clear from this account that the bottles, etc are in response to unprovoked attacks by police, but the police are then using that response to justify their initial attack, and escalate further.

Police firing flash-bangs point blank at protestors, rescuers.
http://www.ktvu.com/video/29587714/index.html

Iraq vet shot in face by Oakland police
http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/video.html?freewheel=90121&sitesection=ap&VID=23542128

[guido911]

They really aren't complaining about how much someone makes, they are complaining about how little they pay comparatively.

Why is this such a problem? My gosh, if some rich guy pays more in federal income tax than an entire group of people like Schiff, should that group be, at least, embarrassed? If some rich guy employs 150 people and the group employs none, should that group, at least, question whether they are targeting the wrong people? Think about it, seriously. It almost has to be that the group is simply envious of Schiff's income and not what he pays in taxes.

[Red Arrow]

Whether its absurd or not isn't something I fret over. Sheesh, baseball, basketball, and other athletes, as well as actors/entertainers make incredible amounts of money and no one is yelling at them. Fact is, it is none of my damned business how much my neighbor or anyone else makes. I do just fine right now, as I think you do too Red. Seriously, what business is it of someone else to complain about what someone earns? Do those that complain think that the company employing these "overpaid" executives are going to just give it to OWS?

I could use a bit larger dividend for the stock I own.  I won't say it should be used to hire unneeded employees.  In the case of sports figures and entertainers, their income can often be directly tied to their performance.  I just don't see that level of correlation for the run of the mill executive.  If they are leading their corporation to great profitability, they deserve a good salary.  If they are leading their corporation to a failed situation, the stock holders should be able to stop things like bonuses for failure, golden parachutes, etc.  It is not however a government problem.

I was disappointed when a company I worked for long ago was giving top executives, who failed to perform, a golden parachute when people I knew were getting riffed through no fault of their own and only getting about a week's salary for each year they worked.  Better than a kick in the .... but still highly irritating.

[guido911]

Iraq vet shot in face by Oakland police
http://landing.newsinc.com/shared/video.html?freewheel=90121&sitesection=ap&VID=23542128

Welcome to the previous page patric.

[guido911]

I could use a bit larger dividend for the stock I own.  I won't say it should be used to hire unneeded employees.  In the case of sports figures and entertainers, their income can often be directly tied to their performance.  I just don't see that level of correlation for the run of the mill executive.  If they are leading their corporation to great profitability, they deserve a good salary.  If they are leading their corporation to a failed situation, the stock holders should be able to stop things like bonuses for failure, golden parachutes, etc.  It is not however a government problem.

I was disappointed when a company I worked for long ago was giving top executives, who failed to perform, a golden parachute when people I knew were getting riffed through no fault of their own and only getting about a week's salary for each year they worked.  Better than a kick in the .... but still highly irritating.

Are the "run of the mill executives" making the sort of money OWS is complaining about? I don't know. And I agree with the idea that poor performance should not be rewarded. Still, it's not my business. You cannot imagine how many bad lawyers make lots of money.

[Red Arrow]

And I agree with the idea that poor performance should not be rewarded. Still, it's not my business. You cannot imagine how many bad lawyers make lots of money.

I think it's my business when it affects my income or cost of living.  Admittedly a top executive making $1 Million/year isn't going to affect the price of a tank of gas much.  If I can choose not to support a company that I think is running up their costs in executive salaries, then fine.  Often, that is not the case. I will repeat that I don't believe it is a government problem with regard to private business.

[guido911]

Believe it or not, I do empathize with a segment of OWS--those young people that borrowed as much as they did and have nothing but a piece of paper to show for it. Shame on our colleges and universities that do not prepare its students to make it in this economy. More shame on the possibility these schools taught its students that others are responsible for them not finding jobs and not the schools' fault.

In my off time, I speak with law students on how to get work in today's economy. There are butt loads of lawyer jobs out there, but for new grads not so much. These students have to know how to make them attractive to employers, just like those with degrees in "liberal arts" and the like need to today.

[guido911]

I think it's my business when it affects my income or cost of living.  Admittedly a top executive making $1 Million/year isn't going to affect the price of a tank of gas much.  If I can choose not to support a company that I think is running up their costs in executive salaries, then fine.  Often, that is not the case. I will repeat that I don't believe it is a government problem with regard to private business.

Point taken and accepted. While I can suggest that if you don't like what a company does with its money, you can leave. The fact remains that if management is doing that sort of thing then you have an interest. And I agree with your last sentence.

edited.

[nathanm]

Whether its absurd or not isn't something I fret over. Sheesh, baseball, basketball, and other athletes, as well as actors/entertainers make incredible amounts of money and no one is yelling at them. Fact is, it is none of my damned business how much my neighbor or anyone else makes. I do just fine right now, as I think you do too Red. Seriously, what business is it of someone else to complain about what someone earns? Do those that complain think that the company employing these "overpaid" executives are going to just give it to OWS?

I don't know about you, but most of us own at least a small part of many of those corporations that are paying their executives so much, so I think it is in fact my business what they get paid. Moreover, it's a broader societal issue, in that it is (somewhat convincingly argued, but not airtight, IMO) partly responsible for the decimation of the middle class. The top has been taking a greater share of the productivity gains in the last 30 years than is the historic norm, and it began almost precisely when that reduction in (the proportion of, to the total workforce) middle class earners began.

Let's keep in mind that they're not talking about the money that the self-employed make, they're talking (in the main) about what public company C-level executives are making and the incestuous relationship between the boards of many companies and the CEOs they are supposed to be keeping an eye on.