Is The Occupy Wall Street Movement an Answer to The Tea Party Movement?

[guido911]

Gowwd!  You can just do this all day long.

What an arrogant idiot.

[Red Arrow]

What an arrogant idiot.

When I went through Boot Camp, we had to do the tear gas chamber thing.  It makes you a believer in a gas mask.  Although it could probably technically be considered a chemical weapon, tear gas pales in comparison to real chemical weapons.  Most WWI vets are gone now.  There are some people in Iraq that had that experience.  A lot of them are also gone now.

[heironymouspasparagus]

What an arrogant idiot.

Cops shoulda just opened up with their M-16's and the crowd would have evaporated.  Kind of like Kent State...


Most of the people in Iraq with experience of chemical weapons of mass destruction are dead.  Dead Iraqi's.  Because of the chemicals and hardware we supplied Saddam Hussein.  Not to even mention the Kurds he treated the same way.

[Red Arrow]

The class action suit alleges police engineered the circumstances by which the 700 people, all obeying police instructions, could be arrested.

Got some You Tube videos?  There are bound to be some.

[Red Arrow]

Cops shoulda just opened up with their M-16's and the crowd would have evaporated.  Kind of like Kent State...

I suspect that most of the people trying to compare or make this like Kent State, don't remember Kent State.  They have just read about it and romanticize it, kind of like Bonnie & Clyde, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.....

Us old guys remember it.  It wasn't good.

[nathanm]

Just because there is a lawsuit claiming that doesn't make it true. The police claim it didn't happen that way.

Yes, everyone in the group that had been walking on the sidewalk for blocks suddenly decided to wander off into the street for no reason at all. It makes perfect sense.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I suspect that most of the people trying to compare or make this like Kent State, don't remember Kent State.  They have just read about it and romanticize it, kind of like Bonnie & Clyde, Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid.....

Us old guys remember it.  It wasn't good.

I remember it (I'm just as old as you are.)  Kids throwing rocks and debris at armored National Guardsmen throwing .30-06 bullets from M-1 Garands.  Fair enough exchange...


And getting tear gassed on the "U" at TU.  (TPD expression of disapproval at citizens expressing their disapproval of certain government actions occurring at the time.  Lawfully under the law of the land at the time, but not necessarily under the TPD "law of the land".)

[guido911]

When I went through Boot Camp, we had to do the tear gas chamber thing.  It makes you a believer in a gas mask.  Although it could probably technically be considered a chemical weapon, tear gas pales in comparison to real chemical weapons.  Most WWI vets are gone now.  There are some people in Iraq that had that experience.  A lot of them are also gone now.

I remember going through "the chamber". It didn't hurt that bad, but the degree of suck that happened when it got into my sweaty, open skin pores in that Texas August heat was unbelievable.

[Red Arrow]

I remember it (I'm just as old as you are.)  Kids throwing rocks and debris at armored National Guardsmen throwing .30-06 bullets from M-1 Garands.  Fair enough exchange...

And getting tear gassed on the "U" at TU.  (TPD expression of disapproval at citizens expressing their disapproval of certain government actions occurring at the time.  Lawfully under the law of the land at the time, but not necessarily under the TPD "law of the land".)

I'm not so sure about the "fair exchange" thing but throwing rocks and other stuff at heavily armed groups (police, National Guard....) when everyone is in an excited(?) mood is not an overly intelligent thing to do.

I missed the gassing at the "U".  (Well, I didn't really "miss" it but I wasn't here.)  What year was that?  I was probably either not here yet or in the Navy.

[Ed W]

There's always a peril in reasoning by analogy.  But I heard a brief interview with Glenn Greenwald, whose latest book, "With Liberty and Justice for Some" argues that the American elites are not subject to the same rule of law as the rest of us.  They're too big to prosecute just as those Wall Street firms are too big to be permitted to fail.

I was thinking about this in a much smaller sense, and that revolved around traffic law.  Bear with me.  If our government decided that a certain class of driver - say, those driving late-model BMWs - were immune from being cited for traffic offenses no matter how egregious, the rest of us might complain bitterly.  But so long as our elected officials perceived maintaining the status quo as advantageous to their re-election, little would change.

The non-BMW drivers would see that the law was unjust.  They would have little reason to obey the law themselves, and some few would argue that since the BMW drivers cannot be prosecuted, the law is both unjust and illegitimate.  If this idea spread, a critical mass of drivers would form, making enforcement nearly impossible.

That's where I think we are with OWS.  The idea is pervading the general culture and it rings true with many people.  We're on the edge of that critical mass as more people see that those responsible for collapsing our economy are walking away unscathed with their pockets stuffed with cash.  Some would have us concentrate on the side show of truly outrageous behavior we've all seen.  We're supposed to be distracted and those sideshow performers are given as examples meant to minimize the OWS message and marginalize its impact.  If the polls are correct, the idea of demanding accountability from those responsible for destroying our economy crosses party lines.  And that, friends, is something our elites find truly frightening.  

 

[Red Arrow]

I remember going through "the chamber". It didn't hurt that bad, but the degree of suck that happened when it got into my sweaty, open skin pores in that Texas August heat was unbelievable.

I doubt it was any better in Orlando, FL in November.  The rest of Orlando was not too bad for Boot Camp.  Got done in time to come home on Christmas leave.  I got sick as all get out from something from boot camp.  I ran a temp of 104.  I'm glad I was home and not in some infirmary somewhere.

[Red Arrow]

I was thinking about this in a much smaller sense, and that revolved around traffic law.  Bear with me.  If our government decided that a certain class of driver - say, those driving late-model BMWs - were immune from being cited for traffic offenses no matter how egregious, the rest of us might complain bitterly.  But so long as our elected officials perceived maintaining the status quo as advantageous to their re-election, little would change.

The non-BMW drivers would see that the law was unjust.  They would have little reason to obey the law themselves, and some few would argue that since the BMW drivers cannot be prosecuted, the law is both unjust and illegitimate.  If this idea spread, a critical mass of drivers would form, making enforcement nearly impossible.

While I understand the attempted analogy, as the owner of a (then late model) BMW I believe that your analogy has flaws based on personal experience.  Had I been driving my then 14 yr old Buick, I think I would have been given a pass.  Just my opinion.

[guido911]

I doubt it was any better in Orlando, FL in November.  The rest of Orlando was not too bad for Boot Camp.  Got done in time to come home on Christmas leave.  I got sick as all get out from something from boot camp.  I ran a temp of 104.  I'm glad I was home and not in some infirmary somewhere.

I broke my knee and femur in three places at medic tech school in 1991 while playing....wait for it...racquetball. I got decent emergency treatment and the surgery was a success. Only missed one day of class and graduated number 1. As for getting sick in the military, I got food poisoning in 1988 and spent 4 days in a local hospital. No infirmary could care for me.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I'm not so sure about the "fair exchange" thing but throwing rocks and other stuff at heavily armed groups (police, National Guard....) when everyone is in an excited(?) mood is not an overly intelligent thing to do.

I missed the gassing at the "U".  (Well, I didn't really "miss" it but I wasn't here.)  What year was that?  I was probably either not here yet or in the Navy.

Not really suggesting they are the same thing OR that Kent state was fair exchange.  (The old satire and irony thing...)

Oct, 1969.  Moratorium on the war 'celebration'.  

By then, one of my best friends had gone into the Navy - enlisted to ride a boat instead of getting drafted and having to walk (Army).  Worked out well for him.  Spent his time based in Subic Bay, running up and down the Viet Nam coast in an LST.  Back to base regularly.  Got lots of target practice with the .50's shooting up Sampans in the Gulf.   Good times!!  (sarcasm...but better duty than many.)

[Red Arrow]

Oct, 1969.  Moratorium on the war 'celebration'.  

I remember the Moratorium on War day. Classes were cancelled.  Mom and I went fishing on the Chesapeake Bay.  She picked me up in the morning.  We spent afternoon fishing. She dropped me off at school on her way home and life went on.  The whole family was still "back east" then.

Tulsa was some city west of the Mississippi and north of Texas.