Is The Occupy Wall Street Movement an Answer to The Tea Party Movement?

[Hoss]

The other part of reality is that there is not enough money even in the famed upper 1% to continue spending like we are. Some of that increased revenue will necessarily come from "us".

Then EVERYBODY needs the same amount (proportionally) of skin in the game.  Agreed?  That way, it's no longer the right's catch-phrase dujour: class-warfare.

[Conan71]

Then EVERYBODY needs the same amount (proportionally) of skin in the game.  Agreed?  That way, it's no longer the right's catch-phrase dujour: class-warfare.

I'm a huge fan of across the board increases at every level and commensurate across the board cuts to every budget.  It takes all the sacred cows out of the discussion.  Well not entirely because it will still be, the rich are only taking a 3% increase in taxes while everyone else gets hit with an extra 3%. At least I would hope it would soften the rhetoric.  Cutting budgets across the board will make sure that all the conservative and liberal sacred cows end up with the same treatment.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I'm a huge fan of across the board increases at every level and commensurate across the board cuts to every budget.  It takes all the sacred cows out of the discussion.  Well not entirely because it will still be, the rich are only taking a 3% increase in taxes while everyone else gets hit with an extra 3%. At least I would hope it would soften the rhetoric.  Cutting budgets across the board will make sure that all the conservative and liberal sacred cows end up with the same treatment.

Get rid of the windfall of the 15% capital gains tax.  That is the biggest source of the huge disparity.  Then it IS even across the board.

[dbacks fan]

Well he's a friend of them long haired hippy type pinko fags, I betcha he's even got a commi flag tacked up on the wall inside of his garage......Oh sorry. Lost my train of thought for a second. Carry on.

Sayeth the Uneasy Rider after a flat tire in Jackson Mississippi! 

[guido911]

Get rid of the windfall of the 15% capital gains tax.  That is the biggest source of the huge disparity.  Then it IS even across the board.

I just cannot understand why you and others are so damned obsessed over what other people make. It's none of your business. I don't sit around and wring my hands over what the super wealthy make. Not just because it isn't my business, but also because I know they pay a sh!t ton more than I do. Just as I pay the same amount more than many in this forum. They also employ more people and took riskier chances than I do/did. As I inquired in another thread, where does the mentality of those people who get off paying small or no federal income tax demand that others must pay more come from?

And since when is it the government's job, via taxation, to close any income inequality gap? I want to know the constitutional or statutory authority that grants the federal government that power. If you don't like the so-called disparity, don't buy the products or use the services of those making all that money. Problem solved if there are enough of you are out there.

[nathanm]

How does verbiage like that get the upper middle class and the wealthy on board?  I think we all realize we need more revenue coming in and I don't have a problem with my taxes being raised to help solve that problem if I felt the government was taking any steps to be more responsible with the revenue they already have and with the revenue they want to increase.  I have yet to see any sort of fiscal spending restraint by the current Congress or president.  For every cut, they come up with something else they can spend it on.  It's ridiculous. 

Personally, all I see any increased taxes from my pocket going to re-pay the highest contributors of my elected officials so I'm really reticent about tax increases.  It also irks me to no end to hear someone say it's my patriotic duty to pay more in taxes simply because I can.  I think it would be a whole lot more patriotic to stop this patronage form of government.

For what it's worth, federal expenditures have declined over the last year, at least in the discretionary budget. Mandatory spending probably hasn't, as unemployment is still high.

Regarding your second paragraph, I'm pretty sure everybody but the people in Washington agrees on that one (and even some of them agree), from the most pinko commies to OWS to the Tea Party to the Randroids. Well, maybe not the Randroids. They consider it their inalienable right to buy off whatever government that may be. But everybody else... Problem is, we need a Constitutional Amendment, because the kind of restrictions we need to implement to prevent graft will necessarily impinge peripherally on some of our Constitutional rights.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I just cannot understand why you and others are so damned obsessed over what other people make. It's none of your business. I don't sit around and wring my hands over what the super wealthy make. Not just because it isn't my business, but also because I know they pay a sh!t ton more than I do. Just as I pay the same amount more than many in this forum. They also employ more people and took riskier chances than I do/did. As I inquired in another thread, where does the mentality of those people who get off paying small or no federal income tax demand that others must pay more come from?

And since when is it the government's job, via taxation, to close any income inequality gap? I want to know the constitutional or statutory authority that grants the federal government that power. If you don't like the so-called disparity, don't buy the products or use the services of those making all that money. Problem solved if there are enough of you are out there.

Couldn't care less what other people make, and have said so.  You just don't understand.

What I care about, and also have said so, is the fact that they get to skate on paying their part of the bill with that kind of preferential treatment.  But you do understand that...but it is off-script.

[guido911]

What about the preferential treatment 47% of Americans who pay no federal income taxes get? These people are paying no share, much less a fair share. And how about an answer to the question about the source of government's role in narrowing the income disparity gap.

[nathanm]

What about the preferential treatment 47% of Americans who pay no federal income taxes get? These people are paying no share, much less a fair share. And how about an answer to the question about the source of government's role in narrowing the income disparity gap.

I don't consider living near the poverty line to be preferential treatment. Yes, they pay a share. Usually plenty of payroll tax and sales tax. And government's role is in setting the rules in such a way that wealth is not allowed to concentrate too much. It's bad for the economy, so it's something we all have an interest in.

[heironymouspasparagus]

What about the preferential treatment 47% of Americans who pay no federal income taxes get? These people are paying no share, much less a fair share. And how about an answer to the question about the source of government's role in narrowing the income disparity gap.

Except when reality intrudes...they get to pay the income tax built into every item from every company they buy from.  Which is still disproportionate to what the 1%ers pay.  Except for the biggest companies that don't have to pay income taxes.  Like Exxon, GE, et. al.


Not really much of a question...income disparity gap...eliminating the preferential tax treatment given to the $10 million income is NOT "narrowing" any gap - is is only about fair taxation.  Not causing the the 1%er make less or closer to the minimum wager - just making the taxes less preferential in the 1%er's favor.  (Another one of those things you already know, but is also off-script.)

Personal thought moment; the government has no business narrowing income gaps.  The more Buffet and Gates and you make, the more taxes should be paid.  I would LOVE it if my tax bill doubled every year for the rest of my life - that just means I make more and more and more.  Like you do... you have mentioned how your tax bill is getting so much bigger this year (kicking your donkey, I think you said???).  And I said something to the effect that it meant you were doing spectacularly well!  Congratulations!!  I wish you well with that - really, with no sarcasm, irony or any other form of insincerity - it is an article of faith with me.  I also wish everyone could share in that.

[Red Arrow]

Except when reality intrudes...they get to pay the income tax built into every item from every company they buy from. 

It sounds like you are making a case for eliminating corporate taxes since the poor have to pay corporate taxes at a disportionate rate when the poor buy products.

[heironymouspasparagus]

It sounds like you are making a case for eliminating corporate taxes since the poor have to pay corporate taxes at a disportionate rate when the poor buy products.

Actually, I would advocate the opposite.  Run ALL taxes through the corporations/companies.  Hang on a minute...I'll explain...
With two exceptions - capital gains and inheritance.

First, corporations/companies are already set up and equipped with the accounting wherewithal to deal with it.

Second, the IRS has only a few million interfaces, rather than 100's of millions.  That means the IRS can be vastly smaller and less intrusive into regular peoples lives.  Saving how many hundreds of millions in IRS expense?

Tax code no longer has special dispensation for special people. 

[Conan71]

Actually, I would advocate the opposite.  Run ALL taxes through the corporations/companies.  Hang on a minute...I'll explain...
With two exceptions - capital gains and inheritance.

First, corporations/companies are already set up and equipped with the accounting wherewithal to deal with it.

Second, the IRS has only a few million interfaces, rather than 100's of millions.  That means the IRS can be vastly smaller and less intrusive into regular peoples lives.  Saving how many hundreds of millions in IRS expense?

Tax code no longer has special dispensation for special people.  

Sounds essentially like a consumption tax which is what the "fair tax" is.  Unless you come up with a rebate for lower earners though it's incredibly regressive which will really piss off the libs.  There's plenty of dispensation now for special people as you say.  Like the 47% who pay no Federal income tax now.

[DolfanBob]

Sounds essentially like a consumption tax which is what the "fair tax" is.  Unless you come up with a rebate for lower earners though it's incredibly regressive which will really piss off the libs.  There's plenty of dispensation now for special people as you say.  Like the 47% who pay no Federal income tax now.

Ah. The Neal Boortz "Fair Tax" idea. I like it. I knew we had a few things in common Conan.

[guido911]

I don't consider living near the poverty line to be preferential treatment. Yes, they pay a share. Usually plenty of payroll tax and sales tax. And government's role is in setting the rules in such a way that wealth is not allowed to concentrate too much. It's bad for the economy, so it's something we all have an interest in.

We are talking about tax policy, not whether one is poor or living near the poverty line. And I generally don't care about those living in those circumstances since there was a point in my and my wife's life where we had NOTHING. Did we whine and b!tch about wanting to take money from someone else or demand income equality? Nope. We manned (and womaned) up and did what wevhad to do, which meant postponing starting a family or buying a house until we were financially able to do so.
And I am sick of hearing about the poor paying a payroll "tax" which is designed to be a benefit to each paying person in the long run (medicare/social security) and sales taxes.  These are taxes every working person and consumer pays and is nowhere close to paying federal income tax. In my opinion, if you don't pay federal income tax, you are freeloading and mooching. Period. Persons not paying this tax are getting free military protection, free FDA protection, free environmental protection, free national park access, and free everything else the 53% of federal tax payers are picking up the tab on.

And as I asked another poster, please provide the constitutional or statutory authority that grants any government the power to prevent "wealth [from being] allowed to concentrate too much."