Solyndra

[heironymouspasparagus]

I knew that was where you were going.  I think Solyndra was not thoroughly vetted but I don't have a big problem with the concept that a government investment can fail.  We just need to look more carefully to see what we get for our investment.  I think research rather than production of something with an already outdated process would be in order. 

Polio was a big deal when we both were kids.  I got the shots too. My best friend's father (friend our age) died from complications of polio in the late 50s or early 60s.  The father lived in an iron lung for many years.  I also had a friend (our age) in the volunteer fire dept of my original home town that had a "mild" case of polio.  He was lucky but was concerned about what might affect him as he aged.  I haven't seen him since we were in our early 20s.

I wasn't trying to hide it, either...I have repeatedly made it clear that it is ridiculously disingenuous for all the fretting and stewing that goes on for a billion or two.  Or even 10 or 20, when the big money to the tune of trillions has been wasted by previous regimes for much less productive endeavors than Solyndra, et al.  At the very least, we have learned a good and valuable lesson from Solyndra that says when you are trying to compete with a $3 cost in a market that is dominated by $1 costs, you are doing it wrong.  Won't stop us from doing it again, since we aren't in charge!



Polio - yeah, it was big even after the shots became widely available, 'cause it took several years to completely cover the population.  We were kept indoors at prime mosquito time - maybe helped, maybe didn't - will never know for sure, but that's what you did then.  Even mild cases seem to have long term adverse effects.  Nephew (7 years younger than me) has been having more trouble as he ages.  Muscle deterioration in the affected arm, with pain and decreasing strength.  But I am getting some of those, too, so it may just be old age.

[Red Arrow]

We were kept indoors at prime mosquito time - maybe helped, maybe didn't - will never know for sure, but that's what you did then.  But I am getting some of those, too, so it may just be old age.

Probably has something to do with chasing the mosquito truck spraying DDT.

[heironymouspasparagus]

And if I had way more than enough resources to fight small pox, I'd do it on my own, not pimp the government others for money resources I didn't need in the first place.

Face it, your outrage is selective.  If this had been Rupert Murdoch, the late Ken Lay, or someone like that, we'd never hear the end of it.

Face it - we should have made big oil and insurance companies do it on their own - not pimp the government (our money!).  Or fighting the wrong war for stupid crap that I didn't need in the first place!

As I have said - the energy expended to rave about Solyndra is the same as that required for Rupert and the gang.  The actual costs talked about are orders of magnitude different.  And I HAVE made statements about the ignorance of Solyndra.  And just those statements were vastly out of proportion to the relative effects between the two situations.  If I were to have commented proportionally, it would have been something along the line of "oh,...we maybe shouldn't have done that..."

[heironymouspasparagus]

Probably has something to do with chasing the mosquito truck spraying DDT.

Not sure.  The truck always seemed to come around after the bugs were already bedded down for the night.  We got to go back out after dark a lot of the time, especially on the weekends - after the bugs were done for the day.

[Red Arrow]

Or fighting the wrong war for stupid crap that I didn't need in the first place!

Viet Nam was a long time ago.

[Red Arrow]

Not sure.  The truck always seemed to come around after the bugs were already bedded down for the night.  We got to go back out after dark a lot of the time, especially on the weekends - after the bugs were done for the day.

Have you ever been to Richard Lloyd Jones Riverside Airport after dark?  The mosquitos don't quit when the sun goes down.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Viet Nam was a long time ago.

That too.

Iraq this time.

[Red Arrow]

Iraq this time.

It will be interesting to see what history says in another 30 or so years, if we live that long.

[nathanm]

I knew that was where you were going.  I think Solyndra was not thoroughly vetted but I don't have a big problem with the concept that a government investment can fail.  We just need to look more carefully to see what we get for our investment.  I think research rather than production of something with an already outdated process would be in order.

Solyndra's product and process aren't outdated, they're ahead of their time. They needed more time to get cost down and they needed the low hanging fruit to already be picked. Thin film solar will be a big deal, but at the moment most of the money is going to traditional silicon panels. Someday, your shingles will be your solar panels, and that's the sort of application where thin film will eat silicon's lunch, but it, of course, goes back to price per watt.

The final nail in their coffin was the Chinese silicon cell dumping. The Chinese manufacturers are presently selling far below cost because they're being forced to overproduce due to overly optimistic sales estimates leading to them contracting for far more silicon ingot than they actually need. Were Chinese panels not so abnormally cheap, Solyndra's product wouldn't seem outrageously expensive like it does now, so they'd have sold enough to remain in business long enough to better optimize the process.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Have you ever been to Richard Lloyd Jones Riverside Airport after dark?  The mosquitos don't quit when the sun goes down.

That's a serious mosquito.  They seem to calm down by 9:30 or so in other areas of town.  It's that pesky stagnant river just to the east of the airport.


We went by twice in the last two weeks.  Last weekend, we drove by on Saturday afternoon.  Don't know the streets, but we came north from town up along a little wooded creek area just south of the runway.  If you were taking off to the south, you would cross that east/west street at end of runway and be over the creek and the woods.  Sitting in a couple of trees about 300 feet south of the street were two bald eagles, just chillin'.  It was magnificent!!!

Yesterday, we didn't see the eagles, but came up the road on the east side of airport, then looped around the north toward the west.  

[Red Arrow]

They needed more time to get cost down and they needed the low hanging fruit to already be picked.

So how much are you willing to pay for a Chevy Impala to subsidize the Chevy Volt?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Solyndra's product and process aren't outdated, they're ahead of their time. They needed more time to get cost down and they needed the low hanging fruit to already be picked. Thin film solar will be a big deal, but at the moment most of the money is going to traditional silicon panels. Someday, your shingles will be your solar panels, and that's the sort of application where thin film will eat silicon's lunch, but it, of course, goes back to price per watt.

The final nail in their coffin was the Chinese silicon cell dumping. The Chinese manufacturers are presently selling far below cost because they're being forced to overproduce due to overly optimistic sales estimates leading to them contracting for far more silicon ingot than they actually need. Were Chinese panels not so abnormally cheap, Solyndra's product wouldn't seem outrageously expensive like it does now, so they'd have sold enough to remain in business long enough to better optimize the process.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see their tubular technique come back in the future.  It just isn't gonna happen at $3 per watt.  If someone can get it down under $1, then they will be good to go - and that $1 can be prorated to the efficiency of the architecture - if the tube is 30% more effective at gathering energy, then that $1 can be adjusted by 30% and still be fine.  But the other technologies may improve, too during that time - perhaps multiple layers gathering energy from different sections of the light spectrum.  (That's a patentable idea that I hereby place in the public domain if no one else has patented it yet.)

[heironymouspasparagus]

So how much are you willing to pay for a Chevy Impala to subsidize the Chevy Volt?

Don't do it nathan!  I just rented an Impala and it was crappy!!



Red, how much are you willing to pay for a gallon of gas PLUS the portion of your tax bill to subsidize Exxon?

[Red Arrow]

That's a serious mosquito.  They seem to calm down by 9:30 or so in other areas of town.  It's that pesky stagnant river just to the east of the airport.
We went by twice in the last two weeks.  Last weekend, we drove by on Saturday afternoon.  Don't know the streets, but we came north from town up along a little wooded creek area just south of the runway.  If you were taking off to the south, you would cross that east/west street at end of runway and be over the creek and the woods.  Sitting in a couple of trees about 300 feet south of the street were two bald eagles, just chillin'.  It was magnificent!!!
Yesterday, we didn't see the eagles, but came up the road on the east side of airport, then looped around the north toward the west.  

The south end of the airport is 91st St.  The golf course and houses in Jenks are south of there, not really a creek.  The north end is bounded by 81st St which is wooded and potentially wet. The west end is bounded by Elwood and private property.  The NW corner along Elwood is also wooded, low and there are several sites where houses used to be.    The east side is bounded by the RR tracks which cross Peoria/Elm near the south end of the airport.  Take a look at Google Maps, I think you may have gotten your N, E, S, and W confused.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The south end of the airport is 91st St.  The golf course and houses in Jenks are south of there, not really a creek.  The north end is bounded by 81st St which is wooded and potentially wet. The west end is bounded by Elwood and private property.  The NW corner along Elwood is also wooded, low and there are several sites where houses used to be.    The east side is bounded by the RR tracks which cross Peoria/Elm near the south end of the airport.  Take a look at Google Maps, I think you may have gotten your N, E, S, and W confused.

Ooops!  Forgot about that mile where the golf course is.  South on Elwood to 101st.  Looking at Google Earth, there is a little clump of woods about 250 feet south of the road, on the east side of Elwood.  The eagles were in those trees. 

Also went out to Keystone eagle sanctuary, but didn't see any at all.  And as a side note, the county has just gotta be proud the way they are keeping up that road (old highway 51) that goes along the south side of the river from the dam east to highway 51.  Great place to watch the eagles, but just a horrible ride.  They should just grind it up and go back to gravel if they aren't gonna do any better than that.  But hey, what can you expect from a county in Oklahoma?