Solyndra

[Red Arrow]

Red, how much are you willing to pay for a gallon of gas PLUS the portion of your tax bill to subsidize Exxon?

If my driving profile were more stop and go, I would consider a hybrid or electric car.  Right now, both of my (1995 and 1998) cars are paid for.  It would take a lot of miles of stop and go driving to pay the premium for a hybrid or electric car.  I also have occasional need to exceed the travel range and load capabilities (I need to tow a trailer occasionally) of an electric car.  Right now, most of us have no choice but to pay whatever the price of gas is.  The only thing we have control over is how much of it we use.  I don't just hop in the car and go for a drive for the fun of it much any more.  I don't use enough gasoline to justify buying a new hybrid or electric car.  Avgas is pretty much anywhere from $4.50/gal to over $7.00/gal.  I don't do as much flying as I would like or used to do.  If I am just out flying about, I stop at Okmulgee for Avgas since it's about $1.00/gal cheaper than at Riverside.  

If you are talking about the oil depletion allowance for Exxon/Mobil (and all the other oil companies), that's another deal entirely.  

[Red Arrow]

Ooops!  Forgot about that mile where the golf course is.  South on Elwood to 101st. 

Yep, southbound (or northbound) on Elwood between 101st and 96th (Main St, Jenks) is wooded and a creek on the east side.  I'm not surprised you saw some eagles there.

[heironymouspasparagus]

If my driving profile were more stop and go, I would consider a hybrid or electric car.  Right now, both of my (1995 and 1998) cars are paid for.  It would take a lot of miles of stop and go driving to pay the premium for a hybrid or electric car.  I also have occasional need to exceed the travel range and load capabilities (I need to tow a trailer occasionally) of an electric car.  Right now, most of us have no choice but to pay whatever the price of gas is.  The only thing we have control over is how much of it we use.  I don't just hop in the car and go for a drive for the fun of it much any more.  I don't use enough gasoline to justify buying a new hybrid or electric car.  Avgas is pretty much anywhere from $4.50/gal to over $7.00/gal.  I don't do as much flying as I would like or used to do.  If I am just out flying about, I stop at Okmulgee for Avgas since it's about $1.00/gal cheaper than at Riverside.  

If you are talking about the oil depletion allowance for Exxon/Mobil (and all the other oil companies), that's another deal entirely.  

The oil depletion allowance was ended a long time ago.  It was replaced by a variety of more complex and larger deductions/credits/subsidies.

[Red Arrow]

The oil depletion allowance was ended a long time ago.  It was replaced by a variety of more complex and larger deductions/credits/subsidies.

Since I have obviously not kept up with the deductions/credits/subsidies, I cannot say whether or not I willingly support them.  Intentionally screwing the oil companies is probably not in our best interest though.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Since I have obviously not kept up with the deductions/credits/subsidies, I cannot say whether or not I willingly support them.  Intentionally screwing the oil companies is probably not in our best interest though.

Turn about is fair play....


Don't worry, they won't let us get to them.  They control the money and the power.  As evidenced by our non-support of any alternatives - we have to let other countries do it for us.

[Red Arrow]

As evidenced by our non-support of any alternatives - we have to let other countries do it for us.

We need the rich to support the cutting edge technology that the rest of us cannot afford.  I remember that the early airpots for coffee cost in excess of $100.  Enough rich folks bought them as toys to make the production numbers such that the rest of us peons could afford them.  I see alternative energy in much the same light.  I'm not going to pay a (30%?) premium for an alternative energy car when plain old gasoline meets my needs.  The rich guys that want the toy can pay the price to pay for the development and get the social standing of doing the right thing.  Eventually the price will come down to where you and I can afford to buy it too.

[heironymouspasparagus]

We need the rich to support the cutting edge technology that the rest of us cannot afford.  I remember that the early airpots for coffee cost in excess of $100.  Enough rich folks bought them as toys to make the production numbers such that the rest of us peons could afford them.  I see alternative energy in much the same light.  I'm not going to pay a (30%?) premium for an alternative energy car when plain old gasoline meets my needs.  The rich guys that want the toy can pay the price to pay for the development and get the social standing of doing the right thing.  Eventually the price will come down to where you and I can afford to buy it too.

Getting close.  One of the kids has a Prius.  She was driving Corollas and Camry's for a few years - a new one about every 18 to 24 months.  Crazy.  Gets 45 to 50 around town and 40 on the highway.  Seems to be close to EPA guesses.  I'm still waiting for Subaru to starting letting us have a diesel.  That I would buy new.  Tomorrow.


Solar cells are getting there in a big way.  I am not going to try to go "off grid", but am working on a small pallet sized backup system for when power goes out like the ice storms.  Will have two 250 watt cells, charge controller, good inverter, and large capacity battery bank.  Will also built a small windmill for a few hundred watts.  (See www.otherpower.com).  Just enough to run the furnace and keep the fridge going.  Should be able to get at reasonable cost - around $3,000.  As compared to a generator for full house (5kw) that would be around $1,000 plus power switch (couple grand installed?), plus $30+ per day fuel.  Or a nice Generac natural gas unit, with grid switch for 10k and more plus installation.

Not any big savings for my system, but don't have the ongoing fuel cost.  And am willing to do without full house power - just need heat and food preservation.  Maybe a few CFL lights?

[Red Arrow]

Getting close.  One of the kids has a Prius.  She was driving Corollas and Camry's for a few years - a new one about every 18 to 24 months.  Crazy.  Gets 45 to 50 around town and 40 on the highway.  Seems to be close to EPA guesses.  I'm still waiting for Subaru to starting letting us have a diesel.  That I would buy new.  Tomorrow.

I drive about 100 mi/week to work and back from Bixby to RVS in a paid for car.  Even 50 mpg isn't really going to warrant the price of a new hybrid.  If someone drives a lot of miles that suits the hybrid driving profile, then go for it.  Most of us around here probably don't fit that profile.

As compared to a generator for full house (5kw) that would be around $1,000 plus power switch (couple grand installed?), plus $30+ per day fuel.  Or a nice Generac natural gas unit, with grid switch for 10k and more plus installation.

Depending on your house, I wouldn't call 5KW a whole house generator.  We had/have a 5KW generator that my dad deemed insufficient to take care of the water well pump and other starting currents for the fridge while running the other necessities like the TV.  I think your $10K for a Generac is a bit high.  

These are the first URLs I found.  I have not investigated details but $5K plus installation is probably more like it.

http://www.norwall.com/categories/Auto%252dTransfer-Switches/
http://www.norwall.com/products/Generac-Guardian-5875-20kW-Standby-Generator-(Aluminum)-Pre-Packaged-200-Amp-Service-Rated-ATS.html?gdftrk=gdfV23267_a_7c1096_a_7c3327_a_7c5875&gclid=CL6-443MiK4CFSFeTAodABU_3g

[heironymouspasparagus]

I drive about 100 mi/week to work and back from Bixby to RVS in a paid for car.  Even 50 mpg isn't really going to warrant the price of a new hybrid.  If someone drives a lot of miles that suits the hybrid driving profile, then go for it.  Most of us around here probably don't fit that profile.

Depending on your house, I wouldn't call 5KW a whole house generator.  We had/have a 5KW generator that my dad deemed insufficient to take care of the water well pump and other starting currents for the fridge while running the other necessities like the TV.  I think your $10K for a Generac is a bit high.  

These are the first URLs I found.  I have not investigated details but $5K plus installation is probably more like it.

http://www.norwall.com/categories/Auto%252dTransfer-Switches/
http://www.norwall.com/products/Generac-Guardian-5875-20kW-Standby-Generator-(Aluminum)-Pre-Packaged-200-Amp-Service-Rated-ATS.html?gdftrk=gdfV23267_a_7c1096_a_7c3327_a_7c5875&gclid=CL6-443MiK4CFSFeTAodABU_3g

House is a whopping 1045 square feet.  Without air conditioning, 1.5 kw generation with adequate battery would power the entire house indefinitely.  Air is what kicks it up.  Have rarely needed that for winter ice storm... 

Water well pumps are usually pretty small - 1 HP or so.  That's under 1kw running, and should be under 5kw for starting.  (Franklin Electric pump motor - they are the most common).

I don't have a problem staging things like the fridge - making sure nothing else is running at same time, but my little system would start that and the heater motor (1/2 HP) and run them both.

[nathanm]

I thought it was dirt.

[Gaspar]

Father-in-law's is 1,700 sq/ft in Midtown.  Has a 17kw natural gas generator and capacitor, so the power NEVER goes out.  17KW will run everything with no problems.  Ticks off the neighbors when the power goes out for a few days and they see him through the front window watching TV and sipping wine. The generator is so quiet that you can hardly hear it unless you walk out behind the detached garage.  The larger units are variable speed, so they will only kick out what you are pulling, and if you have a capacitor, that pull is gradual.

We run a 5kw gasoline unit now when we lose power.  I have breakers marked so that I can shut down everything that will pull over that maximum.  We basically go into "Storm Mode" and have power for just about everything we need.  If you walk into a room and try to turn on a light or TV and it doesn't come on, then you can't use it.  We went to all LED TVs last year, and they don't pull much power.  We get 8 hours on a tank.  Haven't needed anything over an hour in a while, certainly not this year!

[heironymouspasparagus]

I thought it was dirt.

Huh??

[nathanm]

Huh??

I think I managed to somehow confuse the forum software, leaving my post out of place over here instead of where it belonged. I didn't intend to imply you live in a sod house.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I think I managed to somehow confuse the forum software, leaving my post out of place over here instead of where it belonged. I didn't intend to imply you live in a sod house.

Oh.


I wouldn't be adverse to sod house.  Or hay bale for that matter. 

[Teatownclown]

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/06/06/495791/cnn-solyndra-loan-bush-started-no-evidence-of-wrong-doing-romney-attacks-are-made-up/?mobile=nc

CNN has two dynamite pieces on Solyndra, "Romney wrong on Solyndra facts" and "Seven things you should know about Solyndra."

The first one, by Steve Hargreaves of CNN Money, ends:

It's one thing to spin something to one's advantage. It's another to simply make things up to make the other guy look bad. Romney's
Solyndra speech was an example of the latter. Disgraceful.

Hargreaves shows that Mitt Romney's key claim —
"An independent inspector general looked at this investment and concluded that the
Administration had steered money to friends and family and campaign contributors" — has no basis in fact.

The second piece, also by Hargreaves, lists 7 key facts:

1. It was started by Bush: The DOE loan program that funded Solyndra was actually started by President Bush in 2005. It was intended to provide government support
for "innovative technologies"....
In fact, as Climate Progress reported back in September, the "Bush Administration advanced the Solyndra loan guarantee for two years" before Obama became President.

2. Congress thought there would be more failures: Two companies have declared bankruptcy under the loan program so far, out of the 33 projects funded. Congress
was expecting more....
Congress appropriated money to cover expected losses, and multiple independent reviews have confirmed that the actual losses will likely be less than Congress expected.

3. Solyndra wanted more: The company applied for another $468 million in funding shortly after its first DOE loan closed. The government did not award the second
request.

4. Taxpayers aren't the only losers: Private investors lost almost twice what the government did — nearly $1 billion.
While much has been made that the largest private investor was an Obama supporter, the second largest was a fund controlled by the Walton family — of WalMart fame. Walton family members are noted Republican donors.

5. The renewable program is closed: The renewables loan program that funded Solyndra and other wind and solar ventures is now over. There is still $170 million
available for renewables under a separate program that also handles nuclear power....

6. No smoking gun with Solyndra wrongdoing: Last week Mitt Romney said an inspector general "looked at this investment and concluded that the administration had
steered money to friends and family."
That appears to be incorrect, as no evidence of undue influence peddling by the White House has been uncovered in an official, independent report.
As a major Bloomberg analysis of Solyndra and the media hype of the story concluded, "The Focus on Solyndra Is Not Proportional to Its Impact."

7. Solyndra isn't a typical solar company: Solyndra did not make regular, flat solar panels.
It made a more advanced, cylinder-shaped device designed to capture the sun's rays on its entire surface — hence the company's name.

It was the rapidly declining price of traditional, flat solar panels and silicon – mostly from China — that did the company in.

more at link.