(PROJECT) Brady Fairfield Inn by Marriott

[Teatownclown]

I didn't mean to swing the thread in a negative.

Go Brady

+1

But I fear there's too much food and alcohol chasing too few dollars in DT. 

[we vs us]

+1

But I fear there's too much food and alcohol chasing too few dollars in DT. 

Build it and they will come.

[Townsend]

Build it and they will come.

And give reasons for corporations to move their employees here instead of move them away.

[DTowner]

+1

But I fear there's too much food and alcohol chasing too few dollars in DT. 

I think that is a reasonable concern.  At some point, absent real job and population growth, newly opened places will simply pirate off of existing establishments.  In that clip from MSNBC on Elliot Nelson and the McNellie's Group posted somewhere on another thread, one of Elliot's managers wondered on camera if DT Tulsa wasn't getting close to the saturation point (my word, not his) for restaurant/bars absent some game changer.

For the foreseeable future, however, I think a growing and expanding downtown entertainment scene is much more likely to siphon off patrons from other places around town - maybe even out south – as downtown becomes "the" entertainment district.  Also, I don't think Tulsa has begun to fully reap the benefits of the remodeled convention center as a driver of visitors to downtown for large conventions or conferences.  And, as mentioned above, a happening downtown is a huge asset in attracting new people and new businesses to the Tulsa area.

In other words, all the development underway in Brady, Blue Dome and by the BOK Arena are awesome!

[carltonplace]

Build it and they will come.

People are salivating for these types of developments in down town right now. I think we are a long long way from the top of the curve. I'd put us at minus 3

[we vs us]

People are salivating for these types of developments in down town right now. I think we are a long long way from the top of the curve. I'd put us at minus 3

Agreed.  And Dtowner makes a good point about the Convention Center (and other DT hotels, ahem).... overall, the business we've seen come to Brady/Blue Dome has been mostly local folks coming downtown for day trips or less (a meal, a couple of hours at a fest, BOK/PAC/ONEOK/etc).  There have been occasional large multi-day events that draw regional or national folks to tay, but those are relatively rare.  I can count the repeating business on one hand, actually (OIGA; OMEA; Route 66 Marathon and Tulsa Tough).  If we could double those, you'd see an exponential increase in the business we could support.

And FWIW, it doesn't have to be citywide convention business.  Even group business that stays at a single venue can have a major impact on the walkable districts. We just need to manage a consistent stream of these things and you'll see the equation change significantly.

And we haven't even talked about the booming residential market; when it really gets cooking it's going to change everything yet again. 

[carltonplace]

Agreed. Now someone bring on the retail. If bikes shops, shoe shops and T-shirt shops are any indication people are ready to shop down town.

[TheArtist]

  Our downtown has a lot more potential to be a bigger draw for the restaurant/bar crowd.  The other night I went with some friends to some place out by the mall near 71st and Memorial, against my will I might add.  It was in the same parking lot, on the north side, where the Red Lobster and Windsor Market are.  

I could not believe my eyes.  This place was large and packed. But I was in shock most of the evening for these were young adults, people mostly in their 30s, some younger some older,,, packing this place out there in suburban wasteland, dreck.  The place was nice I grant you, wish I could remember the name, but it was a chain,,, and by the MALL!?  Really!?  These were grown up people, acting all cool, dressed up in their clubby clothes and such, hair done just so, strutting around, socializing, having a drink and listen to music.... in a SUBURBAN STRIP MALL!?  Really!?  It was just so surreal and abnormal from my perspective.  Now I remember beeing a teen and thinking the Mall and such was neat,,, but adults?  I mean here they were parking in some huge parking lot of a strip mall to go out and just down the way was the Chuck-E-Cheese and that big pizza place thing, yet somehow this was a "normal" hang out for these people?  OMG!  Grow up and go to the city lol.  Could you imagine meeting someone at some bar in a suburban strip mall?  How humiliating lol. "Come here often hot stuff?  "  But there they were packing that place in like it was a completely normal thing?  I was just utterly baffled.    

A while back I was in NYC. We were at a rooftop bar at night, palmtrees all alight, skyscraper canyons glowing below you on all sides, the Empire State building aglow right in front of you, full of interesting people, etc.  Now I know we don't have anything like that here, but you could still have some smattering of dignity and go some place downtown or in a decent urban area.  Could you imagine someone from a real city coming to Tulsa and being hauled out to suburban no where land, parking in some huge parking lot in front of a strip mall and going into a club, and the people here thinking this is a fun, normal, hang out?  Sitting outside there you had a view of a large parking lot, the Pep Boys and the Dollar theater. I kept looking around thinking, What on Earth!?  I had never seen such a thing.  Granted I don't go out that way very often, but really. Go some place with some character, support your local businesses not chains, go places that are unique and unique to your city, urban is cool, suburban is bleh.  Am I the only one that thinks that, I thought everyone thought that way. I mean I can understand living in a suburban area, but I can't imagine in anyones mind other than some teenybopper that hanging out by the mall is something to do in the evening? lol  

Oh, just texted a friend and he said the place was  Baker Street.    

Again I was baffled and wondering why all these people were here and not downtown?  Why was that place there and not downtown, for even though it was a chain, it had a decent atmosphere and well designed layout. But the whole experience did not fit with what I thought was the usual way of things.  I will not go back again, I don't think I could handle the shock and trauma of,,,, whatever that was out there lol.

[Townsend]

 Oh, just texted a friend and he said the place was  Baker Street.    

I was there once with my wife on a Sunday. We'd escaped an unfortunate Incredible Pizza bday party.

It's very strange how busy that place can be.  The "patio" looks out to a parking lot and the interior looks like an updated Bennigans to me.

While there we observed a toddler under his mother's table licking something off the carpet.  We left soon after to never return.

Disclosure:  I'm a bar snob.

[SXSW]

And give reasons for corporations to move their employees here instead of move them away.

That is a big one.  Actually attracting new corporations would be the next step, and attracting them to downtown.  Tulsa has had moderate success with that recently with Cimarex building their new tower with plans to add hundreds of new employees, NW Mutual moving their office and over a hundred employees to downtown, BOK, Williams and especially ONEOK adding employees at their already large downtown HQ's, etc.  It will be growing small companies and attracting other companies to downtown from other parts of Tulsa and especially from other states that will fuel additional growth in apartments, retail and restaurants beyond what we have now..

[RecycleMichael]

We had a group of ten or twelve go to Baker Street for a happy hour a few months ago. The wait staff was so inattentive that we all had one drink and moved on to another spot. I thought the place had a nice feel to it, but the staff spent the time talking to each other.

[jacobi]

On the subject of too many places chasing after too few dollars.  This is a big concern for now, but I think the solution lies in the hotel and tribune II (heck the tribune I and robinson packer lofts): residents.  If the resident poulation grows, then they are able to have more regulars.  Regulars are business' bread and butter(s).  A BOK show or a convention or a Shock game is great but they are not enough to really make things stay afloat permanently.  Catering to the after-work downtown set is a good idea, but it isn't as good as residents.  The trick is turning those downtown office workers into downtown dwellers.  The problem at the moment is that downtown doesn't (nearly) have enough open residential units.  What I want to know is why we arn't hearing about new development projects every other hour.  I know the economy is bad and banks arn't willing to lend to developers, but sheesh...  I guess I'm just impatient.  As a final point, the great thing about a larger residential population is that once businesses (either employees getting to the BOK tower or dinners getting to hey mambo) the need for parking slowly evaporates.  one can only hope.

[sgrizzle]

I maybe wrong but I think Baker Street won for best new bar in the best of Tulsa awards.

[Red Arrow]

Again I was baffled and wondering why all these people were here and not downtown?  Why was that place there and not downtown, for even though it was a chain, it had a decent atmosphere and well designed layout. But the whole experience did not fit with what I thought was the usual way of things.  I will not go back again, I don't think I could handle the shock and trauma of,,,, whatever that was out there lol.

Except for the view of a parking lot instead of a downtown street and the possibility of bar hopping what is really the difference if you stay inside?  There is obviously a need for a place like this or it would have been empty.  If a place meets your needs and desires, why drive all the way downtown for essentially the same thing?  It's the neighborhood bar thing.  Your neighborhood is downtown.  For others it's 71st & Memorial. I can understand that you abhor suburbia but ask why you cannot (will not?) understand that others may want something else.  Although you ask why aren't the suburbanites coming downtown, I detect a contempt for suburbanites that makes us feel unwelcome.

[TheArtist]

Except for the view of a parking lot instead of a downtown street and the possibility of bar hopping what is really the difference if you stay inside?  There is obviously a need for a place like this or it would have been empty.  If a place meets your needs and desires, why drive all the way downtown for essentially the same thing?  It's the neighborhood bar thing.  Your neighborhood is downtown.  For others it's 71st & Memorial. I can understand that you abhor suburbia but ask why you cannot (will not?) understand that others may want something else.  Although you ask why aren't the suburbanites coming downtown, I detect a contempt for suburbanites that makes us feel unwelcome.

I don't understand why so many want that?  Other than,,, lack of an alternative, not knowing what they could have and thus being perfectly satisfied with the situation, pure habit and its the only thing they know.  Not saying that its wrong per say, though one can make those arguments.  Plus, there is always going to be diversity, but what I saw seemed to be one example of a more common culture, the "rule" not an exception.  

Why drive all the way downtown?  Why indeed?  Why so many people sprawling so much that they would have to "drive soooo far".  Not against suburbia per say, but again when its by far the rule and not the exception or even more of a balance. Also, you HAVE to drive there is no other suitable form of mass transit. Why make it illegal to have any other situation even if you wanted it (mixed use not allowed, minimum parking requirements, on top of biased transportation/infrastructure allocations, etc.)?    

I don't think people realize how much of a joy a good urban environment can be, how it can be more efficient and cost effective.  I don't think they realize how much more interesting a good urban environment can be.  Etc.  we don't really have the examples yet, but its unfortunate and sad that this city doesn't even have good "EXAMPLES!?" and how we have to struggle so hard to create them because so many choose to frequent places at the opposite end of the spectrum versus supporting things that I would argue would help our city become a better place to live for us all.  Like buying local, sure it may be more convenient to do otherwise, but if you buy local a little more it helps out your community and even eventually yourself and your family. These aren't just moral descisions but economical ones as well.  You can argue that a twinkie isn't really bad for you, that its your choice to eat one and you may like them, but if thats aaall you eat or you eat too much of them, you got some problems.  Suburbia isn't bad per say, but we have gone so far in that direction while at the same time ignoring urbanity that we have made it a problem imo.  It has become unhealthy, and too many people are still chosing it far to much and to the detriment of other choices that could make them and their city more "healthy".