More "Fast and Furious"

[nathanm]

You seriously wanting me to prove a negative? It's Holder's allegation that he is a victim of racism. Why should I prove it isn't? Should we just presume it because his noise hole spouted off?

When people are talking about personal experience, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. They would certainly know better than I.

If you were to tell me that you had been on the receiving end of bigotry because you're Italian, do you think I'd tell you to prove it? Why the love would I? What does being such a flaming a**hole get me? Absolutely nothing.

If you start talking about needing to change the law to provide further protections for Italian-Americans, that's when I want to see something beyond anecdote.

[guido911]

When people are talking about personal experience, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt. They would certainly know better than I.

If you were to tell me that you had been on the receiving end of bigotry because you're Italian, do you think I'd tell you to prove it? Why the love would I? What does being such a flaming a**hole get me? Absolutely nothing.

If you start talking about needing to change the law to provide further protections for Italian-Americans, that's when I want to see something beyond anecdote.

That's kinda sad. Playing the race card in this instance is just a claptrap. And it's working on some in here.

[nathanm]

That's kinda sad. Playing the race card in this instance is just a claptrap. And it's working on some in here.

Working how? You think I'd react differently if a woman said she was on the receiving end of sexist behavior or if someone with a disability said they were on the receiving end of discrimination?

[custosnox]

While what you say is true, it doesn't mean there aren't bonafide, hard to prove, impossible to overcome racial injustices throughout our society. I believe there always will be. There are some like above, who don't believe it is ever true unless "proven". When you are immersed in situations where it is obvious that decisions are racially motivated its hard to pay much attention to the deny-ers.

Did I read this was a Bush initiative? Surely he was castigated as well.

Yes, such situations do exist.  And so many racism claims can't be proved or disproved that it really muddies the water.  However, when it is used as a defense, the claim should be looked upon with a skeptical eye.  But without actual evidence, one way or another, if your not personally involved, making a claim for or against is nothing more than opinion.

[Conan71]

Sad to say, racism is alive and well in America. It has become popular on this website to denigrate anyone who dares suggest it. Nonetheless, those who have seen it first hand are not surprised that it occurs in government. To be fair, I have been subject to racist behavior by non whites who found my possible employment, success or mere presence objectionable.

We all deal with it but to deny it is folly.

Sad to say gross incompetence is alive and well in the upper echelons of the Obama administration.  It's got nothing to do with their race and everything to do with how ill-prepared these people were to lead.

[guido911]

Sad to say gross incompetence is alive and well in the upper echelons of the Obama administration.  It's got nothing to do with their race and everything to do with how ill-prepared these people were to lead.

Conan channeling Rep. Allen West?

West said Holder can't logically assign race as a motivation behind the criticisms for his handling of Operation Fast and Furious. "What Fast and Furious has to do with is misleading the Congress and the American people about what you knew about this program, and if you did not know anything about this program, then who's in charge of the Department of Justice?" West said. "It has nothing to do with your race — it has everything to do with competence, with your character and with your ability to lead the Department of Justice."

West said Holder's use of race as a way to attack his critics is "the most insidious thing I ever heard."

"I grew up in the United States military and it's not about your color, it's about your competence, it's about your abilities to execute a mission," West said. "If your commanding officer turns heat on you, it's because you have failed to achieve the mission and I think what we're doing is we're looking at something that was a very horrible program — this Operation Fast and Furious."

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/19/west-holder%e2%80%99s-race-card-is-the-%e2%80%98last-card-in-the-deck%e2%80%99/#ixzz1h1OpmLrW

[Emphasis added].

[dbacks fan]

I just really dislike how now a days it seems that any time someone disagrees or criticizes someone it's now considered as "hater,hatred or racist" no one disagrees anymore.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Sad to say, racism is alive and well in America. It has become popular on this website to denigrate anyone who dares suggest it. Nonetheless, those who have seen it first hand are not surprised that it occurs in government. To be fair, I have been subject to racist behavior by non whites who found my possible employment, success or mere presence objectionable.

We all deal with it but to deny it is folly.

Yeah, racism exists in a pretty big way, still.  But Holder is not being jumped on because of that.  He is being jumped on because he (and Blowbama) continued the tradition started years ago of looking the other way - at BEST - and/or actively participating in this program to deliver guns to criminals.  Bush did it too.  It is despicable no matter who is doing it - agents were killed with the guns the ATF supplied to the criminals.

In this case, it is part of the program those two have to put gun control back on the table in the next term.  That is real.  And it will happen, if we are as stupid as England and Australia were to let their governments pick away at it for years, without fighting back.

[AquaMan]

You seriously wanting me to prove a negative? It's Holder's allegation that he is a victim of racism. Why should I prove it isn't? Should we just presume it because his noise hole spouted off?

You responded to my effort gleefully sure that you had the evidence. You didn't. You actually misread his remarks and are now busy trying to deflect that as though I made some kind of mistake, not you. He did not say he was a victim of racism or that racism was the cause for the program's failure. He said a lot of the criticisms of he and Obama were racially motivated. I would not be surprised. Neither you nor I are privy to the calls, texts, tweets, letters and intelligence that he is.

He made a remark that many people know from first hand experience to be quite true.  A lot of criticism of this president and probably any of his minority appointees has been racially tinged. That is just America Guido. We are not a homogeneous country like the Scandinavians of Norway, or mostly German like Germany. We are a country based on the idea that all people are created equal but are criticized based on their race, education, religion, sexual orientation and geographic location.

Of course if you really think that some redneck, Cajun, Mormon, homosexual, high school dropout really isn't being criticized because of those criteria.....

[AquaMan]

Conan channeling Rep. Allen West?
[Emphasis added].

This Allen West, who doesn't like Wasserman because she's not a lady and thinks Dems are Nazi Propagandists? Yeh, you guys would channel him.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/70564.html

[guido911]

This Allen West, who doesn't like Wasserman because she's not a lady and thinks Dems are Nazi Propagandists? Yeh, you guys would channel him.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1211/70564.html

I wonder if Rep. West, a decorated war veteran in two theaters, would start crying racism over your remark. I think not. As for the poodle, here's the notorious email:

From: Z112 West, Allen
    Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2011 04:48 PM
    To: Wasserman Schultz, Debbie
    Cc: McCarthy, Kevin; Blyth, Jonathan; Pelosi, Nancy; Cantor, Eric
    Subject: Unprofessional and Inappropriate Sophomoric Behavior from Wasserman-Schultz

    Look, Debbie, I understand that after I departed the House floor you directed your floor speech comments directly towards me. Let me make myself perfectly clear, you want a personal fight, I am happy to oblige. You are the most vile, unprofessional ,and despicable member of the US House of Representatives. If you have something to say to me, stop being a coward and say it to my face, otherwise, shut the heck up. Focus on your own congressional district!

    I am bringing your actions today to our Majority Leader and Majority Whip and from this time forward, understand that I shall defend myself forthright against your heinous characterless behavior......which dates back to the disgusting protest you ordered at my campaign hqs, October 2010 in Deerfield Beach.

    You have proven repeatedly that you are not a Lady, therefore, shall not be afforded due respect from me!

    Steadfast and Loyal

    Congressman Allen B West (R-FL)

[AquaMan]

Hah! You chose him because he's conservative, a military veteran and HE'S BLACK! It sort of makes me laugh. You and the republicans who do these things think this makes his points more important. After all he is black. Must be an expert on racism. Last I heard he is one of 435 or so other representatives who burp up stuff all the time and then run for cover.

[Conan71]

You responded to my effort gleefully sure that you had the evidence. You didn't. You actually misread his remarks and are now busy trying to deflect that as though I made some kind of mistake, not you. He did not say he was a victim of racism or that racism was the cause for the program's failure. He said a lot of the criticisms of he and Obama were racially motivated. I would not be surprised. Neither you nor I are privy to the calls, texts, tweets, letters and intelligence that he is.

He made a remark that many people know from first hand experience to be quite true.  A lot of criticism of this president and probably any of his minority appointees has been racially tinged. That is just America Guido. We are not a homogeneous country like the Scandinavians of Norway, or mostly German like Germany. We are a country based on the idea that all people are created equal but are criticized based on their race, education, religion, sexual orientation and geographic location.

Of course if you really think that some redneck, Cajun, Mormon, homosexual, high school dropout really isn't being criticized because of those criteria.....

I don't recall Colin Powell ever saying any criticism of him was racially-motivated.
I don't recall Condoleza Rice ever saying any criticism of her was racially-motivated.
I don't recall Alberto Gonzales ever saying any criticism of him was racially-motivated.
I don't recall Hillary Clinton or Madeline Albright ever saying any criticism of their actions were misogynistic.
And finally, President Bush was a complete idiot on many issues, but I don't recall him ever making any excuses for it.

You are complicit in excusing incompetence at our highest levels of government if you buy into any claptrap that criticism of the president or his AG has anything to do with racism.  This administration offers nothing but excuses: "It's Congress' fault!" "It's the greedy corporatist's fault!" "It's the previous administration's fault!" "It's these racist a-hole Tea Partiers fault!"

[AquaMan]

I don't recall Colin Powell ever saying any criticism of him was racially-motivated.
I don't recall Condoleza Rice ever saying any criticism of her was racially-motivated.
I don't recall Alberto Gonzales ever saying any criticism of him was racially-motivated.
I don't recall Hillary Clinton or Madeline Albright ever saying any criticism of their actions were misogynistic.
And finally, President Bush was a complete idiot on many issues, but I don't recall him ever making any excuses for it.

You are complicit in excusing incompetence at our highest levels of government if you buy into any claptrap that criticism of the president or his AG has anything to do with racism.  This administration offers nothing but excuses: "It's Congress' fault!" "It's the greedy corporatist's fault!" "It's the previous administration's fault!" "It's these racist a-hole Tea Partiers fault!"

You had me up to Hillary and Bush. I believe that was a bit gratuitous. Even Powell has mentioned in post Bush interviews that America has a problem with racism. I also don't think the AG really has the cred that those others do but I do think he knows when criticism is non factually based and he isn't getting the same tweets you are.

You guys are misunderstanding my posts, maybe because you're caught up in an election cycle? America is what it is and it is racist and discriminatory. Indians, Blacks, Orientals, Muslims, Southerners, Left Coasters, Iowans, Catholics, Jews, Jehova Witnesses....we love our diversity and we also use it against each other. So is France and England for that matter. Every country whose nationalism starts to decline as its diversity increases starts to turn on itself. We are ahead of the world in this imo. We have managed to focus more on our common belief in freedom and opportunity than other countries with similar diversity. More homogeneous countries like Germany, Norway etc. have less differences in their population and its not so prevalent.

BTW, its Bush's fault.

[Red Arrow]

You guys are misunderstanding my posts,

At least I feel better that it's not just me.