Downtown Convention Screw-Up

[AquaMan]

Well, so do I. Not enough of them, but some. My point is that, stepping back and suspending the reality that I live here and know those people, what does the city look and feel like to visitors? That became a sobering view. Outside of my little world, the city is more unappealing and unfriendly than I thought.

Its like we have a toddler's stranger complex. Do you get to travel around the city much as an observer?

[heironymouspasparagus]

Well, so do I. Not enough of them, but some. My point is that, stepping back and suspending the reality that I live here and know those people, what does the city look and feel like to visitors? That became a sobering view. Outside of my little world, the city is more unappealing and unfriendly than I thought.

Its like we have a toddler's stranger complex. Do you get to travel around the city much as an observer?

Somewhere else I mentioned a trip to the west a while back and when we got back, it was like we were walking into the video game version of what you just described.  Now that I have re-assimilated, I don't notice quite as much, but you hit a lot the the high points that were contrasted so starkly during our trip.  Outside of Denver proper - didn't spend enough time there to say - everywhere in CO, WY, MT, UT were like the opposite of here.

And it ain't just Tulsa - OKC is much the same if not worse.  (Traffic wise, in particular around the road construction at the end of the turnpike and on I-40 near downtown.)

One huge contrast you did not mention was the trash thrown out on the streets.  The previously mentioned states were all VERY clean compared to just about ANYWHERE in Oklahoma!  It is disgraceful how disgusting the streets and parking lots are in this state.  As example; I did not find ANY used diapers laying on the ground in over 3,000 miles of highway, city street, and parking lot travel.  And I was looking after I noticed the lack of trash just to see if could find one.  None.

[carltonplace]

Well, so do I. Not enough of them, but some. My point is that, stepping back and suspending the reality that I live here and know those people, what does the city look and feel like to visitors? That became a sobering view. Outside of my little world, the city is more unappealing and unfriendly than I thought.

Its like we have a toddler's stranger complex. Do you get to travel around the city much as an observer?

One of my favorite things to do is to explore different parts of the city. Yes, its diverse: lots of ugly, lots of pretty, lots of getting better, but most of it has been the same for a long time. Drive down Dawson Rd, its been exactly the same as long as I can remember. West 23rd St to Avery Dr, North Lewis, East Tulsa, East 21st, Mingo Road, ALL of Memorial from the Airport to 51st St, urban planning disasters everywhere, build whatever you want, we don't care.

But what is getting better is the core and the surrounding neighborhoods. Take a look at Kendall Whittier...its much improved lately, 13th and Peoria, 6th and Peoria, the Blue Dome, Brady Heights, Owen Park, the Brady District, the jogging trail. All of these little buds of change will grow and spread out from the core. Tulsa is loaded with potential and I'm excited to live here right now.

[TheArtist]

  Just to pile on here.  Was with a "suburbanite" heading into downtown on the BA a while back and they commented on how ugly the stretch of highway was in the mid-town area where the tracks run down the middle of the highway.  I had never given it a second thought or look.  But they pointed out how there were all these mismatched fences on top of the retaining wall with haphazard, scraggly vegetation spilling over, growing up in cracks between the walls, etc.  I know because I am familiar with Tulsa that just behind that stuff are some of the cutest old homes and nicer parts of town, but a visitor, even if its one of the "local suburbanites or South Tulsans" who (and I have been amazed to find out) often have no clue about those beautiful old, historic neighborhoods.  Heck the other day I mentioned Philbrook to a client who had lived here for several years now and got a blank stare.  But anyway, when your used to an area, you may not give it a second glance and you don't see it as a visitor will see it.  That stretch of highway was an example.  

We used to really pride ourselves on having a beautiful city and I think we are trying again, but had fallen behind over the years, and often don't see things like someone new will. We have improved some areas greatly, like the River Parks, used to look like a unkempt ditch with a ratty trail running through it.  Looks SO much better now.  Thank you Mr Kaiser.  The new I44 widening project is helping that old highway look much better and the new walls look nice, plus the large pylons they will be adding by the bridge will help things.

Contrast our bridges and roads within the central part of the city to Dallas or KC, there is almost always some sort of artwork factor on the bridge, the railing, lighting, etc.  Our "normal" looks like those places, "bad areas".  

 The entrances into downtown need work as well.  The most convenient exit for me is usually the TCC exit.  If I have a visitor or someone in the car that I am going to show downtown, I always try to talk very intently for those first two blocks right off the highway so as to distract them from how bad that area looks lol. There is a nice little deco welcome sign there at the first stop, but it could use some flowers or something around it for instance lol.  Another thing I recently discovered was the impression people from up north like from Owasso get as they go into downtown.  We exited off that street that goes into the Blue Dome district and the person said, "now see, this is why some people from Owasso have a bad impression of downtown, this is the first thing they see when they get off the highway.  

Part of that again is "suburbanite" expectations versus how a city dweller would see things.  Should we even care what they think? Another is, we can't do much about abandoned buildings and weedy, cracking, parking lots.  Some people are so sheltered in their, everything is shiney and new, suburban, mindsets that they will have a hard time finding any "alien" urban environment attractive.  But, if we continue to improve a few first impression things here and there, and the core of downtown continues to progress, I think we will be well on our way to having a downtown that will be welcoming and attractive to all kinds of people.  And thats happening very quickly now imo.

 But, the danger lies in being complacent, while other cities continue to improve.  What was once, fine and dandy, good enough, will in time be "at a competitive disadvantage".  

[AquaMan]

Trash is an issue here. People just empty their cars on to curbs when they finish their late night drinking and fast food binges. Diapers left on busses. Dog poop left steaming on school yards and easements. Lately I've been seeing bags of trash and furnishings dumped along the running path from 18th to the pedestrian bridge (alongside the yard debris that residents dump there). That's new.

Carleton, I've noticed those areas you pointed out and I remember some of them as being poor, but tidy. Some sense of self respect. Perhaps they work longer hours now. Anyway, the decline in those areas seems new to me. Specifically, east of yale from Pine South to 51st and in the commercial corridors. All no doubt under stress from the economy, crime and drugs. Still...

I did note that the only bright spot is downtown and the near downtown areas. They are demonstrably improving and have momentum. We need to spread that movement cause we can't afford a vacuum in between these areas and the burbs. My real concern is that the personality of the city has changed. People are losing that Southern gentile quality and becoming more hostile and unfriendly. Animosity towards TPS is widespread and cancerous. It just reflects badly on the city.  

Might just be me. Artist's post and its responses seemed to strike a chord though. H is seeing the same thing I think. My brother is a lineman for AT&T and has pretty much the same view of how our city has changed. We used to be a small town that wanted to be big, now we're big. Keep up the good attitude and I'l go pop a Stella.

[Red Arrow]

Keep up the good attitude and I'l go pop a Stella.

Out of Marshall's?

[Red Arrow]

Trash is an issue here. People just empty their cars on to curbs when they finish their late night drinking and fast food binges.

I've been behind cars at stop lights when they open their door and empty the ashtray.  Disgusting! 

[TheTed]

I'm also surprised Topeca wasn't open in the Hyatt until 9a.  The Mayo location opens at 6:30am on weekdays and 8am on weekends.  I've assumed the Hyatt hours are same or at least very similar.

The Mayo location has posted hours that they mostly stick to. That Hyatt location doesn't appear to have any posted hours that I can see from the outside. You would think that posting hours on the door would be right up there with putting a sign advertising your business up. But lots of places in town don't bother, or they post hours but open and close whenever they feel like it.

[Hoss]

I've been behind cars at stop lights when they open their door and empty the ashtray.  Disgusting! 

Yep, even when I smoked I didn't do that...now that I've quit, gives me even more disdain for those that do.

[Red Arrow]

Yep, even when I smoked I didn't do that...now that I've quit, gives me even more disdain for those that do.

Between cleanings, the interior of my car is proof that I don't litter.

[AquaMan]

Ahh...sweet irony. I just popped the top on a Stella (wife and I like them Belgian brews) and went to the front porch for attitude re-adjustment. We all love our porches around here and use them.

I looked around to see how the plants were doing and guess what? Someone stole two metal and glass etageres the plants sat on right off the porch last nite! Left the plants.

[Townsend]

Ahh...sweet irony. I just popped the top on a Stella (wife and I like them Belgian brews) and went to the front porch for attitude re-adjustment. We all love our porches around here and use them.

I looked around to see how the plants were doing and guess what? Someone stole two metal and glass etageres the plants sat on right off the porch last nite! Left the plants.

An étagère is a piece of light furniture very similar to the English what-not, which was extensively made in France during the latter part of the 18th century. It consists of a series of stages or shelves for the reception of ornaments or other small articles. Like the what-not it was very often cornerwise in shape, and the best Louis XVI examples in exotic woods are exceedingly graceful and elegant.

Sorry Aqua, that sucks.

[AquaMan]

I won't miss them. They were on the porch because I needed a place to put plants. They were headed to Goodwill as soon as hard winter arrived. It could be the punk and his sister whose butt I kicked off the porch last year around this time. Or it could be someone who saw them for sale on Craigslist. Whatever.

Motion lights and front porch light didn't stop them. Funny, since it was cold last nite I felt compassion and let my Catahoula inside for the night. She'll wake from a deep sleep and bellow like a dog twice her size whenever anyone approaches.  So, I will set a trap for them and just wait.

[Red Arrow]

Ahh...sweet irony. I just popped the top on a Stella (wife and I like them Belgian brews) and went to the front porch for attitude re-adjustment. We all love our porches around here and use them.

I looked around to see how the plants were doing and guess what? Someone stole two metal and glass etageres the plants sat on right off the porch last nite! Left the plants.

Sorry to hear about the theft.

Belgian Tripels and Goldens are among my favorites.

[Conan71]

Man, someone needs a Marshall's STAT. I meet wonderful people in this town everyday...they way over shadow the one or two idiots I run into.

+1