Downtown Convention Screw-Up

[sgrizzle]

Wrong attitude. Its not the visitors fault that the experience was sub par.

It is partially their fault because they didn't take advantage of what was there and obvious like the concierge and hotel staff.

It was more the organizer's fault for not preparing an event to cater to the needs of the attendees.

THIS IS NOT the responsibility of the Hyatt, Dewey Bartlett, the Chamber, etc. It's 300 people who rented a ballroom. This is not a major event and I really don't want my tax dollars paying to have people standing around pointing directions or printing custom signs pointing a few doctors to a hamburger. The CVB would've helped, if they were asked, which they probably weren't. Even if they had some vague idea it was happening, how would they be aware the event wasn't catered like many major conventions?

[heironymouspasparagus]

 Just to pile on here.  Was with a "suburbanite" heading into downtown on the BA a while back and they commented on how ugly the stretch of highway was in the mid-town area where the tracks run down the middle of the highway.  I had never given it a second thought or look.  But they pointed out how there were all these mismatched fences on top of the retaining wall with haphazard, scraggly vegetation spilling over, growing up in cracks between the walls, etc.  I know because I am familiar with Tulsa that just behind that stuff are some of the cutest old homes and nicer parts of town, but a visitor, even if its one of the "local suburbanites or South Tulsans" who (and I have been amazed to find out) often have no clue about those beautiful old, historic neighborhoods.  

Now THAT is an area that I would be strongly in favor of spending some of my tax dollars to do some work - install a consistent set of fence or wall or something along that stretch of road.  Can't be any more than those massive concrete walls springing up all over the place.  Would be major public works improvement at modest cost.

[we vs us]

I'd like to chime in here as a hotelier and someone who has an -- ahem -- intimate knowledge of the Hyatt, convention planning, and the weirdo delineation of responsibilities during a given event. 

A couple factual clarifications first: the Rt66 1/4 marathon course was planned independently months prior to the event. No notice was given to the Hyatt about either the event itself or its course, and when it did become apparent that this was a conflict, the staff at the Hyatt worked for a month prior to get the marathon course changed.   Unfortunately, it was to no avail, and though both the hotel and the client know this would happen, there wasn't a whole lot that could be done.   

Topeca opens at 6:30am on the weekdays and at 8am on the weekends and will open earlier if business warrants.  They receive information about each group that comes to the Hyatt so that they can staff accordingly.  However, they are owned and managed separately from the hotel, and so are free to open whenever they want.  This also holds true for the spa, the gift shop, and the Daily Grill. 

The parking garage downtown has always been a tricky situation, because it's owned by the city, managed privately, and serves daylong commuters as well as hotel guests.  There's really no sense of arrival or of guidance about how to find the correct entrance.  That's partly the hotel's fault, but also the fault of city signage and of simple placement of exits and entrances. In a lot of ways it's just a poorly planned garage with no good solution.  Trust me, it's ridiculously unique, and decades of experience with it hasn't made dealing with it any easier for the hotel staff

That said, paying for parking downtown is NOT an inconvenience in any other downtown in America.  Compared to standard costs in OKC of near $20 daily (for instance), the $8 charge in the central garage is a bargain.  It may also have seemed expensive when being downtown wasn't desirable, but now it's a bargain to pay for access to the Brady, the Blue Dome, the BOK, the PAC, etc.   This is another one of those urban costs that Tulsans simply refuse to pay, even though they will when they are in another city. 

Regarding wayfinding and general guidance: All of the frontline staff, from the bellmen to the front desk agents to the manager who's shift it is to greet in the lower lobby has access to and knowledge of the nearby area.  In fact, this is the major selling point of the Hyatt, and what sets it apart from everybody else in the market.  It has plenty of walkable conveniences.  There will always be more that hotel staff can do, but as sgrizz says, it's still fundamentally the responsibility of the attendees and the meeting planners to ask for help. 

He's also correct that during the planning phase of an event, it's the meeting planner's responsibility to make time to explore the local area and to provide information about how to get around.  The hotel might have resources to provide the planner to help them do this more efficiently (and the Hyatt definitely does), but it's still the meeting planner's program, and time away from the hotel is still considered part of the program.  The Tulsa CVB (aka VisitTulsa) also has some good literature available gratis to planners, and they just have to express some interest or reach out to the CVB to make sure it's known that that's what they want.  For larger events (like the NCAA, for instance), the CVB and Sports Commission (same folks, really) had a regiment of volunteers ready to help guide people around.  It's quite possible that training and retaining a volunteer concierge group would be a great additional CVB service, but I can tell you right now they are so understaffed and underfunded it's criminal, and are right now trying to sort out fundamentals like funding and structure.  The bigger stuff will unfortunately have to come later. 

Another final thing about downtown as a tourist destination:  it's still small and has a limited range of options.  The food is low end to mid-range; the bars are casual and serve a pretty specific clientele.  And it's still very specifically pitched to locals.  There aren't recognizable names, there aren't recognizable icons . . . and none of the Blue Dome stuff is built to try and snag upscale tourist/corporate dollars. It's a huge gap, honestly.  That's not to criticize or to take away from the progress that's been made, but it is to point out one of our continuing blind spots, which is how to capture tourist dollars.  It's not just the city that doesn't understand it; it's the local entrepreneurs that don't, either.

[TheArtist]

It is partially their fault because they didn't take advantage of what was there and obvious like the concierge and hotel staff.

It was more the organizer's fault for not preparing an event to cater to the needs of the attendees.

THIS IS NOT the responsibility of the Hyatt, Dewey Bartlett, the Chamber, etc. It's 300 people who rented a ballroom. This is not a major event and I really don't want my tax dollars paying to have people standing around pointing directions or printing custom signs pointing a few doctors to a hamburger. The CVB would've helped, if they were asked, which they probably weren't. Even if they had some vague idea it was happening, how would they be aware the event wasn't catered like many major conventions?

I think one point is, that when they went to a similar convention in say KC, everything was made obvious and convenient as to where to go and what to do.... not just for this one apparently insignificant, not worth the trouble, small group, but for every visitor and for every convention big and small, every meeting, concert, businessman, etc.   There was no need to ask for help or people standing around pointing directions.  The hotels, the city, and the dining/shopping/entertainment venues have worked together to make the visitors experience fun, easy, simple, and convenient.   You can say its the groups fault, but the simple fact is, if they do the same thing at place A, then place B and have a better experience at place A.... their memebers are going to want to go to place A again the next time.  

[TheArtist]

That said, paying for parking downtown is NOT an inconvenience in any other downtown in America.  Compared to standard costs in OKC of near $20 daily (for instance), the $8 charge in the central garage is a bargain.  It may also have seemed expensive when being downtown wasn't desirable, but now it's a bargain to pay for access to the Brady, the Blue Dome, the BOK, the PAC, etc.   This is another one of those urban costs that Tulsans simply refuse to pay, even though they will when they are in another city.  

 

I don't think they minded paying that much as the hassle paying brought up by the machines not working well, though when it could have been just as easy to go to the Rennaissance, conveniently park there for free... Its not just other cities that compete, its other areas of town.  No big deal in the big sense in this case for Tulsa for we get em one way or the other, but bit of a loss for downtown.  Plus many of these people have other events, some larger, that they have each year as well.  

Another final thing about downtown as a tourist destination:  it's still small and has a limited range of options.  The food is low end to mid-range; the bars are casual and serve a pretty specific clientele.  And it's still very specifically pitched to locals.  There aren't recognizable names, there aren't recognizable icons . . . and none of the Blue Dome stuff is built to try and snag upscale tourist/corporate dollars. It's a huge gap, honestly.  That's not to criticize or to take away from the progress that's been made, but it is to point out one of our continuing blind spots, which is how to capture tourist dollars.  It's not just the city that doesn't understand it; it's the local entrepreneurs that don't, either.

Very good point. We don't have a "Power and Light Disrict" or even a Bricktown, or for that matter a Dixon Street type area in downtown just yet. Blue dome is ok for us locals, but as long as its as small as it is and has so many empty buildings and that huge gaping hole of parking there, its not going to seem as nice.  Its not "touristy" comfortable, and some out of towners say its scary looking.  As for the place in the Hyatt not being open, I know its not the Hyatts fault, but heard it was frustrating that there wasnt a place to get breakfast or a quick coffee in the Hotel?

[Conan71]

Another final thing about downtown as a tourist destination:  it's still small and has a limited range of options.  The food is low end to mid-range; the bars are casual and serve a pretty specific clientele.  And it's still very specifically pitched to locals.  There aren't recognizable names, there aren't recognizable icons . . . and none of the Blue Dome stuff is built to try and snag upscale tourist/corporate dollars. It's a huge gap, honestly.  That's not to criticize or to take away from the progress that's been made, but it is to point out one of our continuing blind spots, which is how to capture tourist dollars.  It's not just the city that doesn't understand it; it's the local entrepreneurs that don't, either.

As much as I try to avoid chains, do you think something nationally recognizable like a Ruth's Chris, Dave and Buster's (and others I can't think of at the moment) downtown would help with that image?  I do love our local options and that downtown is almost exclusively local, but I can understand how that's confusing to people who want a familiar meal when they are on the road.

FMC and I never eat anywhere but local when we are on the road, I also understand not everyone thinks like we do.  We just ask where all the locals eat.  We like one-off, funky, and getting a dose of the local culture. 

[Conan71]

Now THAT is an area that I would be strongly in favor of spending some of my tax dollars to do some work - install a consistent set of fence or wall or something along that stretch of road.  Can't be any more than those massive concrete walls springing up all over the place.  Would be major public works improvement at modest cost.

What?  And block out their beloved highway noise?  I'd never thought of that before but it would be a nice eye-sore remover as well as helping property values on each side of the BA with the noise attenuation.

[we vs us]

As much as I try to avoid chains, do you think something nationally recognizable like a Ruth's Chris, Dave and Buster's (and others I can't think of at the moment) downtown would help with that image?  I do love our local options and that downtown is almost exclusively local, but I can understand how that's confusing to people who want a familiar meal when they are on the road.

I definitely think a national upscale chain would do something for downtown. I admit that a lot of that comes from my focus at work, which is working with business travelers who want a nice meal or a couple of cocktails at a nice place -- and oftentimes don't want to spend their dwindling energy on making a decision about where to go. There's absolutely a lot to be said for having a boatload of local options but I also think that a good chain will lead credence to the area with folks who aren't in the know...either travelers or the suburbanites who will trust that kind of thing. 

[Red Arrow]

That said, paying for parking downtown is NOT an inconvenience in any other downtown in America.  Compared to standard costs in OKC of near $20 daily (for instance), the $8 charge in the central garage is a bargain.  It may also have seemed expensive when being downtown wasn't desirable, but now it's a bargain to pay for access to the Brady, the Blue Dome, the BOK, the PAC, etc.   This is another one of those urban costs that Tulsans simply refuse to pay, even though they will when they are in another city.

Squeaky wallet speaking here.  Bargain is in the eye of the beholder. $20/day for 365 days/yr is $7300.  $8/day for 365 days/yr is $2920.  I don't consider either a bargain.  But then, I am not one to say I need an urban experience or I won't go.

Several years ago, I went to a continuing education course in Mission Valley, CA near San Diego.  One evening I wanted to stop by Old Town San Diego then go on to the Gas Light District for dinner.  The trolley went right past the motel but I couldn't determine which one to take and whether I would have to make a transfer somewhere.  I decided to drive.  The close in parking at Old Town was full up.  I found a spot about 1/2 mile away and that was OK.  There was a big parking garage in the Gaslight district that I deemed too expensive.  I don't remember the actual $.   I drove around for about 1/2 hr, being willing to walk about a half mile or so, before finding a place to park.  It was a white zone (loading and unloading) next to but not directly in front of a garage type door to a place that was very not open.  The parking enforcer just happened to be there and was kind enough to tell me I couldn't park there and didn't ticket me.  She also told me the color code on the curbs.  +1 for San Diego parking enforcement.  I drove around a bit more but was about 2 minutes from saying ***** it and going back to suburbia for dinner.  I finally found a spot but wasn't really sure the car would be there when I returned.  It was.  I would have liked to figure out how to use the trolley.  I don't remember the name of the motel but I do remember I had to pay for parking.  The was no place available to park for free.  Parking at Mission Beach was free. I went back a second night for dinner.

My brother and some friends have attended events at the PAC and said that the cost of parking is just part of the cost of the evening.  My squeaky wallet has said, yep it's part of the cost and it just ran the cost past my threshold of enjoyment.  I don't go.  I know now that street parking in Tulsa after hours is free if you are willing to walk a bit, which I am. 

On the flip side....
I went to visit some friends in Germany, near Frankfurt, in 1995.  I took a side trip for a week.  Everything was expensive.  I balked at several attractions but then I said - I'm probably only ever going to be here once, just do it.   Is that what we want in Tulsa, one time visitors?

So... Everyone has a threshold of what they are willing to pay for an event. To say that paying for parking is

NOT an inconvenience in any other downtown in America

is probably stretching things a bit.

[we vs us]

I don't think they minded paying that much as the hassle paying brought up by the machines not working well, though when it could have been just as easy to go to the Rennaissance, conveniently park there for free... Its not just other cities that compete, its other areas of town.  No big deal in the big sense in this case for Tulsa for we get em one way or the other, but bit of a loss for downtown.  Plus many of these people have other events, some larger, that they have each year as well.  

Agreed and agreed, re: parking.  But this is important for us as downtown boosters:  free parking is undesirable.  Why?  Long term it leads to crap like 71st St, but in the short term, it encourages a group to atomize . . . to split up and drive around looking for drinks and a party, when being centrally located around a walkable entertainment district is conducive to keeping the group party going.  The Renaissance may look convenient, but it's actually far more isolated than you can imagine.  Trust me:  even walking the several hundred yards to Target is like wandering through the open tundra of the Far North. 

And meeting planners are very open to this idea.   This is why Optometric will be back in downtown Tulsa next year for the same event and at the same facility. It may not be something that we -- Tulsans, downtowners, boosters, or hoteliers -- get right every time, but it's very true that we're all trying to get used to having and using and selling our new toy, and it's true that we will most definitely get better at it.

[heironymouspasparagus]

That said, paying for parking downtown is NOT an inconvenience in any other downtown in America.  Compared to standard costs in OKC of near $20 daily (for instance), the $8 charge in the central garage is a bargain.  It may also have seemed expensive when being downtown wasn't desirable, but now it's a bargain to pay for access to the Brady, the Blue Dome, the BOK, the PAC, etc.   This is another one of those urban costs that Tulsans simply refuse to pay, even though they will when they are in another city. 

The Courtyard by Marriott downtown OKC charges $4 a day - on the southwest corner across the street from the train station - at the west end of Bricktown.  And every time I have gone to Ft Worth on train, I have parked there.  And at the end of the trip, when I go in to pay, they say that's ok... forget it.

Even though I am a Gold Passport member, and have gotten several free nights in the last year and a half, I still get irritated at a parking fee at Hyatt.  Plus, a couple of them have wanted to charge me for internet - at least that seems to be going away.  I just pass and go park at McDonald's for a while.  Guess who gets the "goodwill" vote?

[Red Arrow]

Agreed and agreed, re: parking.  But this is important for us as downtown boosters:  free parking is undesirable.  Why?  Long term it leads to crap like 71st St, but in the short term, it encourages a group to atomize . . . to split up and drive around looking for drinks and a party, when being centrally located around a walkable entertainment district is conducive to keeping the group party going.  

It sounds like you are depending on pay for parking to be an inconvenience enough to cause people to stay in your immediate walkable area rather than explore with their cars.  I think it's a legitimate point but it kind of contradicts your earlier statement.

[TheArtist]

  As much as I loath to say it, perhaps a few chains downtown wouldn't hurt for the tourist/visitor types.  The locals are still going to go to the local places, and you may get more spill-over from the visitors if they hear that there is a " Insert Chain here" just around the corner, and then they see the local place next door and decide to give it a try.  If you tell them there is a Joe Mommas, or Elote's a few blocks over, they don't know if its a fun and funky place, a run down greasy spoon, or what the food is like or how much it costs. If you feel like exploring, great, but if your limited on time and perhaps tired, you may opt for the safe, known option and head out to the nearest chain.  

Parking, I despise parking downtown as well.  Other than the runners/machines not working right, snafu's, and thats not going to happen all the time, I think we have plenty of affordable parking downtown.  It will just take a bit more time for our downtown to get that connectability and pedestrian friendly nature going.  Plus having one or two, or even three "areas" where you can go and have multiple selections in a "complete/filled in" environment will be really nice.  It will be fantastic if people can have an enjoyable walk "not through desolate areas" to a filled out, attractive district, that has multiple options.  We are getting so close to having that in the Brady Arts, Blue Dome, and Deco Districts.

[Red Arrow]

Parking, I despise parking downtown as well.  

I could go for free parking at the edge of downtown and a trolley circulator with multiple ride fares.  

When I was in Memphis, TN a few years ago for a convention, the trolley was available to go from the convention center motel (forget name) to Beale St and beyond.  A 2 ride pass was available in the motel snack bar for a discount.  It got you to dinner and walking about and return.  I had to talk my friend with the car into taking the trolley rather than taking his car and trying to find a place to park.  The trolley was really easy and the tracks made it intuitively obvious to the most casual observer where it went.  I probably would have walked rather than take a bus.  I'll try to check the distance on Google maps.

Edit:  About .9 mi walk per Google Maps.  Oddly, the public transit option shows as a bus on the exact same route the trolley goes.  They need to update that.

[rdj]

A group of "chains" would actually be beneficial for downtown.  It would bring a new set of wallets to the area.  People go where they are comfortable.  Some of us are comfortable venturing into a completely unknown restaurant or bar because we got a vibe to go there.  Many others feel comfortable going in Chili's in every town they visit because they find comfort in knowing they'll be served just like they're are accustomed to.

My hope is the ballpark trust can get going on the land they control and the public/private dollars they have left to build a district akin to the Power & Light District.  It will be a big sell to the out-of-towners (whether they be suburbanites, rural in for the night or conventions)