Large Downtown Tulsa Movie Theater

[dbacks fan]

And that starter system has far exceeded expected ridership and in September of this year had its busiest month.

Yes, because downtown Phoenix has several national companies headquartered there, but also because it's a sports and entertainment destination as well. US Airways Center, The Dodge Theater (can't remember what it's called now, just like I refer to Chase Field as BOB from when it was Bank One), The Orpheum, Science Center, Convention Center, Symphony Hall, two museums, and countless dining and drinking establishments. It has taken Phoenix 20 years to get to where they are now.

Back to the light rail for Tulsa, (and this has been discussed adnauseum) where would you run it? Also as for bike lanes (also discussed a ton) most of the streets in Tulsa are not wide enough to add the needed three feet to accomodate them, not to mention trying to retrain Tulsa drivers how to handle them.

(Also, before you think that I'm an outsider, I lived in Tulsa from 1963 when I was born, until 1998)

[Hoss]

Yes, because downtown Phoenix has several national companies headquartered there, but also because it's a sports and entertainment destination as well. US Airways Center, The Dodge Theater (can't remember what it's called now, just like I refer to Chase Field as BOB from when it was Bank One), The Orpheum, Science Center, Convention Center, Symphony Hall, two museums, and countless dining and drinking establishments. It has taken Phoenix 20 years to get to where they are now.

Back to the light rail for Tulsa, (and this has been discussed adnauseum) where would you run it? Also as for bike lanes (also discussed a ton) most of the streets in Tulsa are not wide enough to add the needed three feet to accomodate them, not to mention trying to retrain Tulsa drivers how to handle them.

(Also, before you think that I'm an outsider, I lived in Tulsa from 1963 when I was born, until 1998)

And really the only light rail destinations would be...where else...downtown.  But wait, I thought David was against developing downtown?

[dbacks fan]

Phoenix metro area: 4.2 million
Tulsa metro area: 900,000

When Tulsa gets to 3 million expect to see talks about light rail.  It's cost counter-productive at this point.

Thanks Hoss. I also forgot to mention that it is coordinated with express bus, regular bus and park and ride locations as well.

It also runs through ASU with a student population of ~ 50,000 students.

[Hoss]

Thanks Hoss. I also forgot to mention that it is coordinated with express bus, regular bus and park and ride locations as well.

And I've lived in a city large enough that I know what mass transit is like.  I lived in Houston before they got their light rail going.  They had an awesome bus system (METRO) and still do.  I just don't see a need for light rail in Tulsa until MTTA/TulsaTransit can get routes squared away.  Right now the transit system is a huge mess.

[dbacks fan]

And I've lived in a city large enough that I know what mass transit is like.  I lived in Houston before they got their light rail going.  They had an awesome bus system (METRO) and still do.  I just don't see a need for light rail in Tulsa until MTTA/TulsaTransit can get routes squared away.  Right now the transit system is a huge mess.

Would loved to have worked in downtown Phoenix when I lived in Gilbert. Two mile drive to a park and ride, 25 minute bus to the rail line, 25 minute ride to downtown. Never drove to a Dbacks game from there. 15 minutes to rail in Mesa, and $4.00 train ride.

[GG]

I'm going to date myself, I remember the good ole days around 1963-64, catching a bus on a Saturday with my friend Mike, I think it cost us 10-15 cents.   Going to Renburgs or Clarks and buying some clothes.  Then taking in a movie at the Orpheum, Majestic or Rialto Theatre.  Then one of our parents or Mike's older sister's boyfriend would pick us up after the movies.  What great memories.

[TheTed]

Any statement about copying OKC just proves ignorance.

Look outside Oklahoma (and Texas) and get back to me. OKC wasn't the first nor the last to use an arena and a ballpark as part of downtown revitalization. There are dozens of cities.

[dbacks fan]

Any statement about copying OKC just proves ignorance.

Look outside Oklahoma (and Texas) and get back to me. OKC wasn't the first nor the last to use an arena and a ballpark as part of downtown revitalization. There are dozens of cities.

That's what almost every city with a pro or semi pro team has done. Phoenix did it originally with the then America West Arena and that started the change there. Look at San Diego with Petco Park (albeit thet had a good start on the entertainment district before hand) Minniapolis with Target Field, and several others.

[Hoss]

That's what almost every city with a pro or semi pro team has done. Phoenix did it originally with the then America West Arena and that started the change there. Look at San Diego with Petco Park (albeit thet had a good start on the entertainment district before hand) Minniapolis with Target Field, and several others.

It just amazes me that people seem to think an arena will be detrimental to a downtown district, when in nearly every case, unless it's horribly mismanaged, it's been an anchor for CBD redevelopment and repurposing when  it's been built there.

[David]

Phoenix metro area: 4.2 million
Tulsa metro area: 900,000

When Tulsa gets to 3 million expect to see talks about light rail.  It's cost counter-productive at this point.

Buffalo, NY disagrees.

[dbacks fan]

Buffalo, NY disagrees.

Apples and oranges.

[David]

Yes, because downtown Phoenix has several national companies headquartered there, but also because it's a sports and entertainment destination as well. US Airways Center, The Dodge Theater (can't remember what it's called now, just like I refer to Chase Field as BOB from when it was Bank One), The Orpheum, Science Center, Convention Center, Symphony Hall, two museums, and countless dining and drinking establishments. It has taken Phoenix 20 years to get to where they are now.

Back to the light rail for Tulsa, (and this has been discussed adnauseum) where would you run it? Also as for bike lanes (also discussed a ton) most of the streets in Tulsa are not wide enough to add the needed three feet to accomodate them, not to mention trying to retrain Tulsa drivers how to handle them.

(Also, before you think that I'm an outsider, I lived in Tulsa from 1963 when I was born, until 1998)

I'd run four lines. Owasso to Downtown, Broken Arrow to Downtown, Downtown/Cherry Street and another city proper line which would be the biggest by far. The first two would be the suburban lines to downtown because they make the most logical sense for business commuters. The third line would be downtown/midtown which would connect the business district, BOk, Brady, OSU-Tulsa, Blue Dome, Pearl, Cherry Street, Hillcrest, St. John's and TU. The last line would be concentrated on the Yale corridor, ORU and Riverside....and connect to the others.

[David]

Apples and oranges.

So you all can cite population differences, but if I find an example with almost identical populations, it's apples and oranges?

[David]

And I've lived in a city large enough that I know what mass transit is like.  I lived in Houston before they got their light rail going.  They had an awesome bus system (METRO) and still do.  I just don't see a need for light rail in Tulsa until MTTA/TulsaTransit can get routes squared away.  Right now the transit system is a huge mess.

Houston is the worst possible example to cite.

[David]

It just amazes me that people seem to think an arena will be detrimental to a downtown district, when in nearly every case, unless it's horribly mismanaged, it's been an anchor for CBD redevelopment and repurposing when  it's been built there.

I think it becomes a financial liability over time when you need to update it, which is why I think an arena should be completely privately financed.