Large Downtown Tulsa Movie Theater

[David]

And really the only light rail destinations would be...where else...downtown.  But wait, I thought David was against developing downtown?

Not in the least bit against downtown development. You all want everything to be entertainment based, and I think it needs to be based more around daily life and residential...which the entertainment being built at a moderate pace.

Right now, you go to downtown and leave. I would like to live and establish myself downtown. A movie theater does not help me in that regard. Though, long term, it would be nice to have if the area has a large community.

[dbacks fan]

So you all can cite population differences, but if I find an example with almost identical populations, it's apples and oranges?

The Buffalo-Niagara Falls Metropolitan Statistical Area is a metropolitan area, designated by the United States Census Bureau, encompassing two counties – Erie and Niagara – in Western New York, with a population, as of the 2010 census, of 1,135,509 inhabitants. It is the second-largest metropolitan area in the state of New York, centering on the urbanized area of Buffalo.

As of the April 1, 2010, the metropolitan statistical area (MSA) had a population of 1,135,509; the combined statistical area (CSA), which adds Cattaraugus, had a population of 1,215,826 inhabitants. It is part of the Great Lakes Megalopolis containing an estimated 54 million people.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_%E2%80%93_Niagara_Falls_metropolitan_area

Not to mention that the Buffalo area has had some form of passenger rail since 1876, and their light rail was built in 1978 when downtown Tulsa was a ghost town.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1876_NYCRR.jpg

[Red Arrow]

Lots of good info about light rail here:  http://www.lightrailnow.org/success1.htm

The (real) trolley could take you to the movie theater.

[tulsa_fan]

Was this thread about a movie theater?

Sounds like a great idea to me.  What are best guesses on where it would go?

I hope it is one that has drinks and food and such.  Smaller scale, but cooler things.  We live in South Tulsa and still come downtown often, and OMG, we are married and still support the bar life downtown!  lol.   I'm thrilled to see all the development. 

Can't wait to hear more about the theater.

[we vs us]

Was this thread about a movie theater?

Sounds like a great idea to me.  What are best guesses on where it would go?

It would need a largish footprint (compared with a restaurant), and I assume Blake'd want it somewhere within the two establish entertainment districts.  That's all I got.  

[Conan71]

Not in the least bit against downtown development. You all want everything to be entertainment based, and I think it needs to be based more around daily life and residential...which the entertainment being built at a moderate pace.

Right now, you go to downtown and leave. I would like to live and establish myself downtown. A movie theater does not help me in that regard. Though, long term, it would be nice to have if the area has a large community.

Downtown was devoid of much entertainment at all other than the Maxwell House, PAC, and the occasional show at the Brady and the Cain's for many years and it floundered as the suburbs grew.  Why was that?  There was nothing else to draw or keep people in downtown before or after shows or after work.  You have to have viable entertainment and shopping options for an area to attract residents and workers or to make workers become residents nearby.  The new arena and ball park have acted as catalysts for more quality development which I doubt would have happened without those being built.

For what it's worth, I was very against the BOK and also shared your view that there was nothing wrong with Driller's Stadium at the Fairgrounds.  However, I truly believe downtown would still be an odd collection of transient night clubs and no major gains in housing if not for those amenities signaling that the city was willing to invest in the CBD as a very livable micro-city.  You can build all the light rail you want, but if there's nothing to do once you are in the hub of that light rail system, there's really no reason to use the light rail other than commuting back and forth to work from the 'burbs.

So a movie theater may not help you and that's fine, but it's a major livability issue to others.

Kudos Blake on this announcement, even if it was kind of concealed in a blog post.

[Jeff P]

So in 15 years when we have an ugly roll of duct tape on Denver with a defunct WNBA team no longer playing, a dwindling amount of concerts, a minor league hockey team attracting 2K in a 19K arena and your local politicians are begging for more tax money to put duct tape on the duct tape..I'll still be around wondering why we didn't improve our city's public transportation systems.

Interesting.

Seems like this exact same gloom and doom scenario was predicted from the moment Vision 2025 was announced.

Except the only difference is the "failure time frame" seems to keep changing.... it's funny how it keeps moving out. I remember predictions like (a) no good concerts will come to BOK (ha!) (b) no good sporting events would come to BOK (NCAA tournament says hi) (c) after a few years, attendance at concerts will drastically fall off. (LOL)

And yet here we are 3+ years since the BOK opened and it just keeps selling out concerts and other events.  We just had a highly successful NCAA Tournament, and the BOK will be in play for future Big 12 basketball tournaments, etc.

And there's a new multi-million-dollar private investment right across the street.  There is no telling how many millions have been invested in downtown specifically because the arena is there.

[rdj]

I thought he mentioned this to the media at the Phoenix groundbreaking last week?

My guess is it will be on the southern end of the Blue Dome.

[Cats Cats Cats]

Its to bad all the theaters that were downtown are all gone. There's something about an old movie theater (single screen) that puts the multiplexes to shame. How many did Tulsa used to have downtown? 5 or 6?

Well.. there is one theater still open..

[Townsend]

Well.. there is one theater still open..

No popcorn there.  It shouldn't really count.

[Patrick]

I don't understand why people are still debating the merits of the arena and ballpark, whether they will be good for downtown, whether they were wise to build, etc.  You can't change the fact they have been built.  The arena has been profitable and continues to be well managed.  I have no clue why people insist it will decline over the next few years.  As long as it attracts great acts, I don't really foresee people losing their interest in attending concerts or sporting events.  It is undoubtedly a success story.

The ballpark is an anchor on the edge of downtown, it has helped spur development in the area and bookends the Brady district.  David's comment about a perfectly usable stadium at the fairgrounds is asinine.  Sure, the old stadium was a location where baseball could be played - you can play baseball at Johnson Park at 61st & Riverside too.  But that is about it - it was uncomfortable and served as a home for die hard fans only and those who picked up a stack of free tickets when paying for gas at QT.  The new stadium is a destination for families, business outings, and other social events.  You drive there and then disperse throughout downtown after the game and grab a drink, late dinner, etc.  It has rekindled a love for baseball in Tulsa.  People are willing to spend money to catch a game with their kids and have a nice evening at a beautiful park.

Both facilities have been built and have been wildly successful.  They have spurred a tremendous amount of development and interest in the area.  We should have used the money for public transportation?  I don't see how leading with public transportation improvements would have been a catalyst for growth downtown.

[dbacks fan]

The block of 2nd to 3rd and Detroit to Cincinnati would be a good location, or 4th to 5th Frankfort to Kenosha might also work. Also either of the surface lots just north of the Union Depot would be good as well.

[Conan71]

No popcorn there.  It shouldn't really count.

And if you do see someone with a bucket of popcorn on their lap, don't help yourself to it.

[carltonplace]

1. The arena cost a tremendous amount of money that, in my opinion, could have been used for public infrastructure projects like light rail, more consistent bus routes and bike lanes. We don't have a major professional team, so I have a hard time justifying the size of an arena for a few concerts a month, couple of basketball games and a minor league hockey team.

2. I don't understand the need for another baseball stadium when you already have one fully adequate at the fairgrounds.

I have my own view of what downtown should be, and it isn't copying everything OKC does as a mini-scale version.

You clearly don't spend much time in downtown businesses. I don't see any connection between our Downtown and OKC's. Our downtown is uniquely "Tulsa", we have great destinations, a growing number of art galleries and lots of local entrepreneurs opening distinctly Tulsa businesses that you cannot find in OKC.
Blake has discussed this concept before on this forum, IIRC this will be a full service theatre and he was looking at the spot of the old colliseum for ground up construction. Bring it!!

[carltonplace]

I think that the idea that residential first or Amenities first is a wrong way to think about it.  The population and the amenities scaffold each other.  Bars and restaurants were first, now first wave of residential.  After places Like tribune two start filling up, the next wave of amenities can really begin (which to my mind would include a movie theater).

I don't think one can get beyond a drive-in-to-downtown bar scene until you have a residential component that supports it.  But I Dont think one can move past a sertain segment of potential housing customer (i.e. those who are young and want to live downtown or people who work downtown or both)  without offering something like a movie theater (a grocery store and liquor store are important too but they are already spoken for).  The goal is to make it not just possible, but more conveniant for those who live downtown, to never need to go east of peoria (ok I'll throw in the pearl and cherry)

I think Downtown can support more than one Liquor store. There are 4 liquor stores on 15th Street between Peoria and Yale and none of them are struggling.