Large Downtown Tulsa Movie Theater

[Red Arrow]

I think Downtown can support more than one Liquor store. There are 4 liquor stores on 15th Street between Peoria and Yale and none of them are struggling.

If you have to travel more than a mile to a liquor store, you are out in the boonies.

Kind of odd considering Oklahoma's "official" reputation for alcohol.

[carltonplace]

I'd run four lines. Owasso to Downtown, Broken Arrow to Downtown, Downtown/Cherry Street and another city proper line which would be the biggest by far. The first two would be the suburban lines to downtown because they make the most logical sense for business commuters. The third line would be downtown/midtown which would connect the business district, BOk, Brady, OSU-Tulsa, Blue Dome, Pearl, Cherry Street, Hillcrest, St. John's and TU. The last line would be concentrated on the Yale corridor, ORU and Riverside....and connect to the others.

Not that I disagree with you here, just investigating: Doesn't a suburban line just perpetuate the same problem we have now with the IDL? The point is to get people out of downtown as quickly as possible and back to their bedroom communities with the money they made in Tulsa. Adding rail won't bring people downtown after office hours, we need downtown to be a destination so that people will want to get in their cars or on the train to come downtown for purposes other than working.

[TheTed]

Personally I don't think I'd want a suburban line.
  
It'd start out only running three trips inbound in the morning and three outbound at night or something like that. Just seems like it'd do little for development.

The Music City Star in Nashville has been running for five years. It's still the same, basically a commuter-only line. They have one Friday evening run, but you better hope you don't want to stay out past 10:30pm.
http://www.musiccitystar.org/ticketsschedules.html#schedules

I'd much rather connect the densest areas of the city with rail/streetcar/whatever. Something like Brookside/Cherry Street/Downtown/TU. Seems like we could get a bus rapid transit line up and running in that area without too much effort. Then transition to rail or some form.

I really think BRT, like the MAX in Kansas City, would be well received. Busses running every 15 minutes so you don't have to plan your trips around a (very poor) schedule, like we have now.

As a frequent visitor to D/FW metro, I feel like their whole system is basically built for commuters. The sprawl factor limits its usefulness greatly. Even if I'm staying downtown adjacent to the rail line, I no longer take it anywhere. Any destination results in crossing 16 lanes of very fast traffic and traversing blocks of surface parking.

[carltonplace]

Personally I don't think I'd want a suburban line.
  
It'd start out only running three trips inbound in the morning and three outbound at night or something like that. Just seems like it'd do little for development.

The Music City Star in Nashville has been running for five years. It's still the same, basically a commuter-only line. They have one Friday evening run, but you better hope you don't want to stay out past 10:30pm.
http://www.musiccitystar.org/ticketsschedules.html#schedules

I'd much rather connect the densest areas of the city with rail/streetcar/whatever. Something like Brookside/Cherry Street/Downtown/TU. Seems like we could get a bus rapid transit line up and running in that area without too much effort. Then transition to rail or some form.

I really think BRT, like the MAX in Kansas City, would be well received. Busses running every 15 minutes so you don't have to plan your trips around a (very poor) schedule, like we have now.

As a frequent visitor to D/FW metro, I feel like their whole system is basically built for commuters. The sprawl factor limits its usefulness greatly. Even if I'm staying downtown adjacent to the rail line, I no longer take it anywhere. Any destination results in crossing 16 lanes of very fast traffic and traversing blocks of surface parking.

Agreed. If you want to ease congestion, and reduce petroleum usage, build a line to the burbs. If you want to boost development, build a small line to seed development on both ends and along the corridor at stops. Example: Fintube to West Bank

[Breadburner]

A downtown theatre would be modeled after The Alamo Draft House in Austin I would suspect......And to the poster suggesting the Bok and Ball Park were bad ideas "You're an idiot"....

[Red Arrow]

Seems like we could get a bus rapid transit line up and running in that area without too much effort.

True BRT is not really cheaper over the life of the system than rail when dedicated right-of-way for a bus is considered.  BRT on the streets does have the advantage of relatively inexpensive failure.

http://www.lightrailnow.org/facts/fa_brt.htm

[TheTed]

True BRT is not really cheaper over the life of the system than rail when dedicated right-of-way for a bus is considered.  BRT on the streets does have the advantage of relatively inexpensive failure.

http://www.lightrailnow.org/facts/fa_brt.htm

At the pace we're moving, I just want something. I just want to be young enough to still be able to walk around by the time we have a great downtown and great transit.

[Red Arrow]

Agreed. If you want to ease congestion, and reduce petroleum usage, build a line to the burbs. If you want to boost development, build a small line to seed development on both ends and along the corridor at stops. Example: Fintube to West Bank

I mostly agree.  A line to the burbs could well be less expensive than trying to increase road capacity.  Increased road capacity typically just moves the congestion farther in or out.  The money saved by not needing to expand the BA Expy might be used for a better downtown circulator transit system, either bus or rail.  Park and ride from BA to Tulsa would have limited appeal without a way to get from the train stop to the destination.  One transfer would probably be acceptable.  Multiple transfers would be a negative for riders of choice.

My sister lives south of Albuquerque, NM and uses the Railrunner commuter train regularly.  She has one transfer to a bus to get to her job.

http://nmrailrunner.com/

[Red Arrow]

At the pace we're moving, I just want something.

I understand.  I want something that will be successful.  Remember, we actually have "something" now.

[carltonplace]

I understand.  I want something that will be successful.  Remember, we actually have "something" now.

Great point, I'm borrowing that.

[godboko71]

Could a mod Split off the "Visions of Downtown Tulsa" conversation from this post?

[JCnOwasso]

People are too attached to their vehicles.  I sincerely doubt a suburban rail from Owasso would be successful, and I am a left leaning person who thought the BOK and Ballpark were great ideas.  Owasso is too spreadout and if you have to drive to a central location and then hop on a rail, which would all take longer than your 20 minute commute.

[cannon_fodder]

David:

You say you want things to develop downtown that would allow people to establish themselves downtown - I assume you saw my sizeable list of new residential downtown.  You know there are two grocery stores going in.  There is a tag agency.  Places to work, worship, and watch performance.  Full time restaurants. Events. Hotels. green spaces. Hair places.  Gift shops.  Candy stores.  Art galleries.  Coffee houses.  Bars and a porno shop.  What else are you talking about?

A movie theater is one more amenitiy downtown that anyone living, working, or visiting can utilize.  I gather that you want something else first, but I'm not sure what exactly you are talking about.  Clearly Ewing, nor anyone else, is going to put in light rail - even though most on their board would be excited to see such a thing happen.

Direction please.  How can we help you?

[Red Arrow]

People are too attached to their vehicles.

Don't count on it.  They said that about the Dallas-Ft Worth area too.  Give commuters a good option and they will take it.  Whether or not there are enough people in Owasso going to the same places in Tulsa to support any public transit is another question.

I sincerely doubt a suburban rail from Owasso would be successful, and I am a left leaning person ...

Put some cardboard or something in your left shoe to counteract your short left leg and you will see more clearly.  

[TheArtist]

  Sure, keep future rail in mind while zoning/planning and impementing downtown development plans.  But right now, focus on creating a wonderful, knock out pedestrian experience downtown, and of course keep growing that housing and amenities, like a new theater.  Rail will make a lot more sense when you can get off the train/trolley and do lots of things and spend lots of time downtown, enjoyably. Shop, dine, movie, theater, concert, game, live, work, play, museums, library, parks, church, grocers, relax, sight see, events, run around till your dead tired, etc.  You want to have it so that people can do lots of things on any one trip and enjoyably walk from each of those things and areas to the other. You don't have to have rail to have that.  But having that can make rail more likely.  Transit or no, for a city our size and metro, we have got some fantastic potential in our downtown.