Large Downtown Tulsa Movie Theater

[rdj]

There is another small housing project underway downtown.  Not sure when it will be, if ever, announced.  Not sure how many units, maybe 20-30.

[joiei]

    But right now, focus on creating a wonderful, knock out pedestrian experience downtown, and of course keep growing that housing and amenities, like a new theater. ...........we have got some fantastic potential in our downtown. 

Saturday night I had dinner in downtown Springfield, MO with friends.   The streets were packed, parking was at a premium, there were people walking everywhere, the restaurant we ate at, Nonna's, was full and people were still arriving at 9pm when we left.   Their downtown has changed dramatically.  There are little restaurants, bistros, shops with clothing and home goods all open late,  Price Chopper has opened a downtown market that looks like a mini-version of Central Market, it was full of people dining, drinking coffees, working on their computers.   And they have a downtown movie theater.  I was very impressed, downtown Springfield looked like a fun place to go hang out.  Plus, the Brown Derby is open till midnight except for Sunday when it closes at 7pm.  

And they do not have rail people movers.   But I can see where they could justify something like that now.   9 years ago it was a dead downtown.   We spent time walking around looking in windows, it was fun.   It has been a long time since I lived anywhere where one could be entertained so easily and cheaply just by walking around.  

I recommend some of you all take a trip up I-44, it is only 2 1/2 hrs.   I think this is something that you all are talking about aiming for.   Oh,  there were several art galleries in the mix of shops as well as some interesting looking clubs.

[TheTed]

Saturday night I had dinner in downtown Springfield, MO with friends.   The streets were packed, parking was at a premium, there were people walking everywhere, the restaurant we ate at, Nonna's, was full and people were still arriving at 9pm when we left.   Their downtown has changed dramatically.  There are little restaurants, bistros, shops with clothing and home goods all open late,  Price Chopper has opened a downtown market that looks like a mini-version of Central Market, it was full of people dining, drinking coffees, working on their computers.   And they have a downtown movie theater.  I was very impressed, downtown Springfield looked like a fun place to go hang out.  Plus, the Brown Derby is open till midnight except for Sunday when it closes at 7pm.  

And they do not have rail people movers.   But I can see where they could justify something like that now.   9 years ago it was a dead downtown.   We spent time walking around looking in windows, it was fun.   It has been a long time since I lived anywhere where one could be entertained so easily and cheaply just by walking around.  

I recommend some of you all take a trip up I-44, it is only 2 1/2 hrs.   I think this is something that you all are talking about aiming for.   Oh,  there were several art galleries in the mix of shops as well as some interesting looking clubs.

Having been there, I agree that it's an impressive downtown, especially for the size of Springfield. Visiting there kind of kills my positivity about Tulsa's downtown, as a town a fraction of Tulsa's size has a better downtown.

[LandArchPoke]

Having been there, I agree that it's an impressive downtown, especially for the size of Springfield. Visiting there kind of kills my positivity about Tulsa's downtown, as a town a fraction of Tulsa's size has a better downtown.

Keep in mind Springfield has Missouri State University, Drury University, and Ozark Tech Community College all within a mile of downtown. College town's tend to have a better downtown vibe. Granted I haven't been to their downtown in a while, but from what I remember of the city that's pretty much the "spot" for everyone similar to Cherry Street or Brookside. I think if downtown Tulsa had a similar anchor university so close to downtown we would have seen better urban development a long time ago.

My question though back to the actual subject, what is considered a "large theater"? I thought from what I read a couple days ago he had said a three screen theater? Also this is just my opinion but I would love to see something like this go in around the BOk Center on an empty lot right by the YMCA building or directly across from the Central Library. You would get great crowd's (especially if it is a dinner/drinks Alamo Drafthouse type theater) that are going to concerts, convention guests, and other downtown visitors. It would be much more walkable to most of the current residential development and hotels then a location in the Blue Down or the east end of downtown.

[jacobi]

There is another small housing project underway downtown.  Not sure when it will be, if ever, announced.  Not sure how many units, maybe 20-30.

Details, please!

Also, I would love to see a theater styled after one of the movie palaces we lost to history.  I realize a single screen like that woulnd't really fly anymore, but if there was ground up construction it wouldn't be hard to at least evoke it.  I know Blake is a fan, look at his dessert menu at Joe's.

[Red Arrow]

Saturday night I had dinner in downtown Springfield, MO with friends.  
And they do not have rail people movers.   But I can see where they could justify something like that now.  

Like a lot of US cities, Springfield, MO had  electric trolleys at the beginning of the 20th Century.  Judging from the date of 1937, they probably fell victim to buses.   I haven't been to downtown Springfield, MO, only to the airport and borrowed a crew car to get something to eat nearby.  Do they have any people movers other that feet?

In 1887, Springfield was one of the first cities in the nation to get an electric trolley. The system quickly spread with lines going to many different parts of town and riding the streetcar soon became not only a convenience, but a form of entertainment. The last streetcar ran in 1937.

Near the bottom of page 1:
http://www.legendsofamerica.com/mo-springfield.html

[LandArchPoke]

Like a lot of US cities, Springfield, MO had  electric trolleys at the beginning of the 20th Century.  Judging from the date of 1937, they probably fell victim to buses.   I haven't been to downtown Springfield, MO, only to the airport and borrowed a crew car to get something to eat nearby.  Do they have any people movers other that feet?

Near the bottom of page 1:
http://www.legendsofamerica.com/mo-springfield.html

Most trolley systems in America were disassembled by the Car companies (Ford, Chevy, etc) because they were viewed as competition to their product. Kind of ironic that we in turn bail them out 80 years later with billions of tax payer dollars.

[Red Arrow]

Most trolley systems in America were disassembled by the Car companies (Ford, Chevy, etc) because they were viewed as competition to their product. Kind of ironic that we in turn bail them out 80 years later with billions of tax payer dollars.

From what I read it was mostly GM, Firestone, and Standard Oil (I think of California).  They established National City Lines to buy up Traction companies and substitute buses made by GM, using Firestone tires, burning Standard Oil fuel.  GM got a slap on the wrist about mid 1900s.

[LandArchPoke]

From what I read it was mostly GM, Firestone, and Standard Oil (I think of California).  They established National City Lines to buy up Traction companies and substitute buses made by GM, using Firestone tires, burning Standard Oil fuel.  GM got a slap on the wrist about mid 1900s.

You are right, I knew it was motor company related (GM) and I feel like Ford was in on it as well but I could be mistaken, and I had forgotten about Firestone's involvement. I could go on a much larger rant about this subject but I won't derail the subject of this thread more than it already is.

[DTowner]

Do they have any people movers other that feet?

Buses with Tulsa type ridership.

[custosnox]

The times that I have been in cities with light rail I have loved it, and I think it would be great to have that here, but it won't happen any time soon for a number of reasons.  Population and population density are a big factor (yes the buffalo comparison was apples to oranges because buffalo has a density roughly 3 times greater than Tulsa, is surrounded by other communities with like densities, and has a tourist industry of roughly 12 million a year).  The love affair with cars is also a factor, which is shown by how we have built this city around them, and our huge parking lots and consumer demands of having parking directly in front of their destination.  That in itself also kills the posibility of rail because it makes an area unfriendly to pedestrians.  If rail were to be successful then the destination of the train would require a traveler to be comfortable with walking once they got to the area.  Before rail can be considered, we need to have areas for people to go to that would have amenities available and in such a way that going from one to another by foot is enjoyable instead of a task.  Of course, this means that you have to have the amenities first, and on that list, pretty close to the top, is entertainment.  And that brings us back to the topic of the thread, a movie theater in what we are trying to make a destination district, not just a go to work and get the hell out district.  Of course, it would be even better if we could get our antiquated liquor laws changed so that we could have a more Alamo style theater with food AND beverages.

As far as the bus system goes, they have a lot of problems to deal with beyond just throwing money at it.  It is in serious trouble and needs a complete make over, but that make over needs a plan first.  Show me a viable system to replace what we have and make it attractive to the people in Tulsa and I'll support it.  

[TheArtist]

As far as the bus system goes, they have a lot of problems to deal with beyond just throwing money at it.  It is in serious trouble and needs a complete make over, but that make over needs a plan first.  Show me a viable system to replace what we have and make it attractive to the people in Tulsa and I'll support it.  

One thing we could do for our bus system is quit making it illegal to have one that works and is cost effective. 

You can't have "minimum parking requirements" in most areas of the city and then expect to have decent transit. 
You can't make "mixed use" illegal in most areas of the city and then expect to have decent transit.
etc. etc.

No matter what we do, if we dont allow our transit to be effective and affordable, if we make it illegal to do so.... guess what?  It's not going to be. 

[JCnOwasso]

Don't count on it.  They said that about the Dallas-Ft Worth area too.  Give commuters a good option and they will take it.  Whether or not there are enough people in Owasso going to the same places in Tulsa to support any public transit is another question.

Put some cardboard or something in your left shoe to counteract your short left leg and you will see more clearly.  

Come on now... DFW is a bit different.  People in Owasso, who work downtown, enjoy the fact that even on a busy day it takes 25 minutes to get to work.  The biggest pain in the trip is getting to hwy 75 (unless you live on 76st).  That portion of my trip is 8-10 minutes of my 20 minute commute.  You would have to put the rail system in a place that has plenty of parking and serves a benefit other than from Owasso to DT, which would be cherokee industrial.  It would take me 12 minutes to get there. 

The benefit of mass transit is that you remove the need of a vehicle payment.  If I still need a vehicle to get there, what is the benefit?  How much is my round trip?  I see no way that this is a feasible investment.  Owasso to BA?  Owasso to the Airport?  Would be a better use of funds.

[Red Arrow]

Come on now... DFW is a bit different.

There are differences to be sure but the exact same thing was said that there would be no way to get commuters out of their cars.

The benefit of mass transit is that you remove the need of a vehicle payment.  If I still need a vehicle to get there, what is the benefit?  How much is my round trip?  I see no way that this is a feasible investment.  Owasso to BA?  Owasso to the Airport?  Would be a better use of funds.

Eliminating a vehicle payment only works in places like NYC designed to live in without a car.  Not using a car as much can result in significant savings.

Going to a park and ride is less miles on your car.  If you are a 2 car family, maybe you could become a 1 car family. Your insurance could be less. My insurance has a lower rate if my daily commute is less than 10 miles each way.  One of my favorites... park and ride lots are frequently free.  When my dad worked in downtown Tulsa, his company provided free parking was a taxable benefit per the IRS.   Rail fare would most likely not be the actual cost of your ride, just as you do not pay your full share of the cost of using the roads in your car.  Owasso to BA and Owasso to the Airport depends on projected ridership. I don't have those numbers.  Reducing the number of cars on the roads from Owasso to Tulsa would reduce the investment in moving the traffic jam expanding the roads.  There were several choices for rail transit to Philadelphia from the town where I grew up.  One of my friend's father got a ride in the family's only car to the train station in the morning and got picked up in the evening.  There were, and still are, several free parking lots next to the trolley stations on SEPTA Route 101 which always had some cars in them during the week.  You need to look at the success of the New Mexico Railrunner.  http://nmrailrunner.com/  My sister uses it regularly but not exclusively to go to work.  It saves gas and wear and tear on the car.  She also doesn't have to put up with the idiots on I-25. 

It all depends on enough people going from the same places to the same places.

[Jeff P]

So.... this housing/transportation discussion has been interesting and everything....

But does anyone know anything about the topic of the thread?   

Will the new theater be in the Blue Dome district?  Any ideas where?  (Hopefully in that big empty lot south of McNellies...)