Official 2011 Christmas Season vs. Holiday Season

[carltonplace]

Well there's that. Should I move my Christmas tree away from the fire place?

No, Santa won't be able to find it. He's not Jesus after all.

[Red Arrow]

Oh I got that. And I have known about that particular faith's position on Christmas.

And I also know about the less than friendly relationship between the Catholic church and the Witnesses.

[Red Arrow]

but I believe that yes it was in the Bible to celebrate the birth - the visit by the three guys with gifts, etc.  Small, but still, in my opinion that sets the precedent.

I'm going to side with my Grandparents as far as it not being in the Bible.  I know that they read the Bible for themselves (and in their Bible study groups) and did not rely on someone else to interpret it for them.    I will diverge from their opinion by saying that I am not aware that it said the birth could not be celebrated. 

[Conan71]

With young, heathen cats in the house I won't be putting a tree up this year anyway unless i care to tip it right side up again every evening when I come home from work.

[heironymouspasparagus]

To me, Christmas is not about its trappings, but I still take my kids to Christmas events, parades, put up a Christmas tree, watch "It's a Wonderful Life" and "A Christmas Story" and "Scrooged", see the Nutcracker, go to Silver Dollar City's Christmas event, have a family dinner, open gifts, and attend Mass because its fun and brings back personal memories of when I was young.

Same stuff we have always done.  Good list!!

Gonna miss Silver Dollar City this year, though.  Sadness.

[Townsend]

With young, heathen cats in the house I won't be putting a tree up this year anyway unless i care to tip it right side up again every evening when I come home from work.

Hang it upside down from your ceiling.  I used to do that for an old employer.

[Red Arrow]

With young, heathen cats in the house I won't be putting a tree up this year anyway unless i care to tip it right side up again every evening when I come home from work.

Put the tree in a corner and put some anchors in the wall.  Tie some strings to the anchors and the tree.  It kept the tree upright when I was a kid and we had pets as well as kids in the house.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Put the tree in a corner and put some anchors in the wall.  Tie some strings to the anchors and the tree.  It kept the tree upright when I was a kid and we had pets as well as kids in the house.

Or just roast the cats for an early Christmas dinner....

[Townsend]

Or just roast the cats for an early Christmas dinner....

Get 'im Artist

[heironymouspasparagus]

Am wondering how long until the howls start?

[Red Arrow]

Am wondering how long until the howls start?

I think the moon was recently full so it will be a few weeks.

[guido911]

And I also know about the less than friendly relationship between the Catholic church and the Witnesses.

I have no problem with Witnesses. I know several and I sometimes read their literature.

[guido911]

Same stuff we have always done.  Good list!!

Gonna miss Silver Dollar City this year, though.  Sadness.

I personally think that Christmas in Branson is a "can't miss". I got hooked when the Rockettes put on their Christmas show years back.

[cannon_fodder]

And I said nothing about government celebrating anything. I don't want it in the way. You, on the other hand, want government in the way and want government to say to me, "No, you can't use our city streets for your parade." It's a matter of perspective I guess.

Again, I have no problem whatsoever with whatever it is you want to do for whatever religious holiday you want.  I'm not sure how I can be more clear on that.  Maybe I need all caps:  ANY INDIVIDUAL SHOULD BE ABLE TO CELEBRATE RELIGIOUS HOLIDAYS AS THEY SEE FIT. 

And I never once said I want the government "in the way" or that I want the government to forbid Christmas parades on streets.  That has not even  happened that I am aware of.  Straw man after straw man you skip over the very point of the discussion.  I must not have been clear, to put it as simply as possible:

I want to maintain the constitutional mandated separation of church and state.

That includes keeping public buildings free of religious icons and avoiding the appearance of favoring one religion over and therefore to the detriment of any other belief system.  I don't want my government putting up a Christ tree in my Courthouse, or a Menorah, or a big black cube for Muslims to walk around in counter-clockwise circles, and I don't want a banner reading "your belief in a bronze-age magic invisible man is ridiculous" (I realize these  statements are obtuse).  An individual should have the right to have a Christmas parade, to put a Christmas tree up - even in the Courthouse or the capital (so long as others are then given an opportunity to also celebrate in that public space), and certainly should have the right to stand on any street corner or public space and press his beliefs on others.  But government has no place in supporting such things in any way, the Oklahoma Constitution is even more clear than the well flushed Federal law on the issue:

Oklahoma Constitution, Article 2, § 5,  the Bill of Rights:
Public money or property - Use for sectarian purposes.

No public money or property shall ever be appropriated, applied, donated, or used, directly or indirectly, for the use, benefit, or support of any sect, church, denomination, or system of religion, or for the use, benefit, or support of any priest, preacher, minister, or other religious teacher or dignitary, or sectarian institution as such.

http://www.oscn.net/applications/oscn/DeliverDocument.asp?CiteID=84812

Using public money to display iconography celebrating the birth of your Lord and Savior Jesus Christ on public property is at least indirectly supporting the mainstream Christian religion.  That's my only problem.  Not your personal interest in the holiday or anyone elses desire to express their beliefs...

As a fun aside, and I've been dying for an excuse to post this...

Oklahoma Constitution, Article 1, § 2. Religious liberty - Polygamous or plural marriages.

Perfect toleration of religious sentiment shall be secured, and no inhabitant of the State shall ever be molested in person or property on account of his or her mode of religious worship; and no religious test shall be required for the exercise of civil or political rights. Polygamous or plural marriages are forever prohibited.

Is it just me or when that was written did it basically say "Everyone's religious practices are secured, except the Mormons."  It takes a special kind to go there in the same section.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I personally think that Christmas in Branson is a "can't miss". I got hooked when the Rockettes put on their Christmas show years back.

There is a really great band doing concerts up there this month and next.  Brule.  Good stuff - saw them on PBS a few weeks ago.
Oops...last day is the 19th Nov.

Would have to be this weekend.  I may have to run up there real quick...