Newt

[Red Arrow]

Let's go back to the beginning, then.

Why?  Pretty much everyone recognizes that we are (even presently) spending way more than we are taking in.  The differences come from the proposed solutions.  Both sides have drawn lines in the sand that neither will move.  Both sides are standing on deeply held principles.  No need to rehash them here.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Why?  Pretty much everyone recognizes that we are (even presently) spending way more than we are taking in.  The differences come from the proposed solutions.  Both sides have drawn lines in the sand that neither will move.  Both sides are standing on deeply held principles.  No need to rehash them here.

Rehash just so everyone is clear about the history.

And Newt's place in that history.


And to counter the BS thrown around about how the current people in office are somehow destroying our country.  The deficit increased EVERY year in Bush's term, while it has been decreasing EVERY year so far in Obama's term - even with the obstructionist Republicontins fighting it every step of the way and hoping for failure. 

And yet, the redefiners of history somehow are trying to cast that as getting "worse and worse".  I think a decline EVERY year in the deficit is a very good thing.  Wish it was a larger decline, but still, the trend is the right direction.

There are plenty of reasons to not want Obama in office (and I have just barely started on that), but economic activity or birth certificates aren't it.  How about stopping the lies and get to the real points?

[Red Arrow]

but economic activity or birth certificates aren't it.  How about stopping the lies and get to the real points?

Birth certificate was never an issue with me.  Due to some of the other numbers you have presented, I have doubts about your sources or at least the interpretation of the data.

[Red Arrow]

And Newt's place in that history.

I am not a huge fan of Newt but I believe he was in the House during the Clinton Admin which you so proudly point out had a budget surplus.

[Conan71]

You mean with Newt's "Contract ON America"?

Yeah, I appreciate how they have "saved" us from a $900 billion debt in 1981, with their policies and misguided financial bungling, turning that into a $14 trillion debt just 30 years later.

I appreciate how they have turned our economy into a 'warfare' based economy, ala "1984".  Major improvement to any of those pesky little peaceful times.

I also appreciate how they have dismantled the fundamental retirement system that had evolved in this country based on defined benefit pensions.  Good times!!

Defined benefit pensions have bankrupted many major corporations as well as local, state, and now the Federal government.

I have to hold my nose at the thought of any praise for Gingrich as I hated his snipey partisanship.  However, he did lead a Congress that presented a surplus by the end of the 1990's partially due to good collaboration with Clinton but Congress at that time truly understood what fiscal conservatism was.  What happened since then is a complete mystery to me, it's like they laid down for Bush and have left the check book unattended ever since.

[nathanm]

Defined benefit pensions have bankrupted many major corporations as well as local, state, and now the Federal government.

No, the looting and mismanagement of defined benefit pensions have bankrupted many major corporations as well as some state and local governments. It seems to commonly be related to shady derivatives deals schemed up by Wall Streeters salivating at the chance to earn fees on the massive funds. The problem is mainly corruption. We've got corrupt management, corrupt companies, and corrupt government, and corrupt unions (although less so than in their heyday).

Of course, part of the problem right now is a whole bunch of sky is falling talk because of the economic situation. When we see recovery, many of the pension funds will suddenly find themselves in a much better position.

[joiei]

[joiei]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWKTOCP45zY&feature=share

[nathanm]

LOL, the first part of the video made me feel a bit better about the Grinch. Thankfully, the little nanites that clean my brain of advertising brainwash kicked in as soon as it was over and I remembered that the only reason I thought that is because it's so rare to see prominent conservatives who aren't completely divorced from reality these days. I hate that the discourse in this country has gotten so bad that a single toe in the pool of the real world can elicit that kind of response.

It would be nice to have more than a smattering of politicians that were willing to take a swim.

[AquaMan]

Steamer trunk sized baggage.

Anyone else think he looks a lot like Mr. Potter on "Its a Wonderful Life"?

[guido911]

There are some people scared sh!tless about Newt in here. Guess since Obama cannot run on his record all that's left is to attack the GOP candidates.

[AquaMan]

Well, I'm not one of them. Newt is busy spewing on Fox right now about how Obama is raising 100's of millions in campaign funds to run the dirtiest campaign ever to keep him out of office. What an ego. Cain gave him the idea though.

But really? If he has some inside info that he can document his charges with why doesn't he share? Or is he just projecting what he would do if he were president?

Guido, this guy is bad news. Romney may be hard to swallow for republicans, but this guy represents everything both extremes and a lot of people in the middle simply despise. Most Democrats would love to see him as the candidate with his steamer trunks.

[guido911]

Well, I'm not one of them. Newt is busy spewing on Fox right now about how Obama is raising 100's of millions in campaign funds to run the dirtiest campaign ever to keep him out of office. What an ego. Cain gave him the idea though.

But really? If he has some inside info that he can document his charges with why doesn't he share? Or is he just projecting what he would do if he were president?

Guido, this guy is bad news. Romney may be hard to swallow for republicans, but this guy represents everything both extremes and a lot of people in the middle simply despise. Most Democrats would love to see him as the candidate with his steamer trunks.

I said that I am not sold on this guy. But one thing is certain, he would tear Obama to pieces in a debate. Worse than what Romney would do. The thing with Newt is that the baggage he has is already known. Running ads attacking his personal proclivities or anything else is on the table and no one really seems to care about it.
On the other hand, right now, one year out, why aren't folks in here talking up Obama's accomplishments rather than attacking GOPers?

[Conan71]

No, the looting and mismanagement of defined benefit pensions have bankrupted many major corporations as well as some state and local governments. It seems to commonly be related to shady derivatives deals schemed up by Wall Streeters salivating at the chance to earn fees on the massive funds. The problem is mainly corruption. We've got corrupt management, corrupt companies, and corrupt government, and corrupt unions (although less so than in their heyday).

Of course, part of the problem right now is a whole bunch of sky is falling talk because of the economic situation. When we see recovery, many of the pension funds will suddenly find themselves in a much better position.

People are living much longer these days as well as the spouses of deceased former employees of corporations who still reap pension and insurance benefits even 20 to 30 years after the retirement of the worker from the employer who provided said benefits in the first place.  When the concept of a pension came around, people generally would enjoy a 5 to 10 year retirement and their spouse might outlive them another 5 years or so.

Blame the global financial clusterf*ck on the banksters and derivatives all you like.  Yes, they are partially to blame.  The real problem is that globally, we are paying for far too much un-productivity.  Civil servant and production line worker retirement programs for 20 to 25 years worth of service simply are not realistic any more.  Someone who retires as a firefighter with a fully-vested pension when they are 45 years old will likely draw off that pension for more years than they were employed in the first place, not to mention the increased health care costs as they age.

European workers are used to many weeks of "holiday" each year, copious health benefits, and a young retirement age.  I always marveled at how a Turkish friend of mine could live like a rock star with nothing more than a part time job in the states while her mother and father served as a teacher and city bus driver in Istanbul.  I would ask Pinar how she could live like she did and she said "The government takes care of me".  

The real problem is Nathan, we've used the global credit card for far too long to supply benefits and money to people who never did work for it or don't work for it any more.  I don't know the exact figure, but it's simply not sustainable for 50% of the population to not work to be dependent on the productivity of the other 50% to carry them along.

[guido911]

The real problem is Nathan..

FIFY