How will this affect Tulsa?

[heironymouspasparagus]

What, you aren't bright enough to plan for and manage your own retirement with a little help?  You're supposedly an engineer, I doubt you are very good at letting others do things for you, why would seeding your retirement be any different?

You gotta be kidding.  Where is the "LOL"??

[Red Arrow]

But there is good news on the horizon - the average value of a 401k in this country is at an all time high since Fidelity began tracking them in 1998.  $74,900.  PLENTY for anyone's retirement!! 

If someone has been living on an income that has only allowed them to save $74,900 in about 30 years, chances are they will be able to live on $74,900 plus Social Security.  At zero interest rate, $74,900 is about $210/mo for 30 years.  Most Oklahomans are unhealthy enough to plan on dying within 5 years of retiring so, again at zero interest rate, $74,900 would be about $15K per year on top of SS.  That will keep most of your SS benefits below the income tax level.  You also get an extra exemption for being over 65.  There are tax advantages to being old.  I have a few years to go but I help mom with her tax return.

If your employer does not match any of your 401K contributions, chances are they would not have had a defined benefit program either.

My airplane habit is too expensive for me to retire anytime soon,  even if my 401K had done a lot better.

[Townsend]

KJRH FB post:

BREAKING: Aircraft maintenance and related workers voted no on the American Airlines' final contract proposal, meaning approximately 2,600 Tulsa workers will lose their jobs.

[Conan71]

Something about spiting one's face comes to mind...

[Ed W]

TWU represents 7 different employee groups.  Five of them voted to accept the "last best" contract proposal.  The mechanics and related did not.  I'm in that group.  I voted to accept it because while my frustration and anger called for a NO vote, my family comes first and I have to protect their interests. 

Jason Whitely, a reporter from Dallas, has been live tweeting from the courthouse in NYC where the bankruptcy hearing is being conducted.  His Twitter feed is @JasonWhitely.  He wrote that AA wants to continue talks with the two dissenting groups in order to reach a consensual agreement.  While that may be true, it's also possible that AA is doing so to remain in compliance with the Railway Labor Act.  They haven't made any significant progress since negotiations started nearly five years ago, so there's little hope that will change at the eleventh hour.

AA bought 460 new aircraft last year, yet they're saying they don't have enough money to pay people to fix or fly them.  It's a wonderment.

[nathanm]

AA bought 460 new aircraft last year, yet they're saying they don't have enough money to pay people to fix or fly them.  It's a wonderment.

Apparently they have also heard that you have to buy the new car before declaring bankruptcy. It's easy to make the payments once you can stop paying your other debts. (or in this case abrogate labor contracts)

The thing that really annoys me about the whole thing is that labor has (collectively) given back billions of dollars in pay and benefits over the last 10 years, yet they still take the blame and face the brunt of the consequences for the bad decisions of management.

[Red Arrow]

AA bought 460 new aircraft last year, yet they're saying they don't have enough money to pay people to fix or fly them.  It's a wonderment.

It's a common situation in General Aviation.  Buy a plane because you can get the financing but neglect to determine if you can afford to keep or operate the plane.  Looks like it's spreading to the airlines.

[nathanm]

So I'm a little late to the party, but I saw this in the news: http://stateimpact.npr.org/oklahoma/2012/07/30/the-ghost-ad-thats-made-american-airlines-tulsa-union-mad/

A hint to the fine folks at TWU Local 565: If you're going to go to all the trouble of hiding the registration info and trying to up the intrigue factor by concealing your identity, don't take a picture with your shiny iPhone 4 and upload it to a website without first stripping the EXIF data, or at least turning off your GPS. Doubly so if it's the main image on your website and you don't want people to know that you were at the union office when you took the picture of the banner.

I take no position on the merits, only the cheesiness involved in people not taking credit for their actions.

[Townsend]

Number Of Tulsa American Airlines Workers To Lose Jobs: 140

http://www.newson6.com/story/19748716/number-of-tulsa-american-airlines-workers-to-lose-jobs-140?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

TULSA, Oklahoma - The number of American Airlines employees in Tulsa who will be laid off has shrunk dramatically, because hundreds of the workers have accepted offers to leave voluntarily.
According to a news release from the Transport Workers Union Local 514, 140 Tulsa employees will have to relocate or find new jobs.

Information posted on the TWU Local 514's web site on Friday shows that the final number of jobs eliminated in Tulsa is 443.  However, TWU Local 514 says 300 of those workers can move into other positions in the company.


TWU 514 says the company was originally planning to cut 2,700 jobs in Tulsa, but local union leaders were able to get that number reduced to 1,300.  TWU 514 says 742 workers accepted the company's early out offer.  Another 50 workers will be displaced by American Airlines from other facilities who have greater seniority.  That leaves the number of jobs eliminated at 443.

"We hate to experience even one layoff because we know that impacts one of our members and their family," said Sam Cirri President of Transport Workers Union Local 514. "But the company originally sought to put over 2,700 of our members on the street as well as outsource the bulk of the work we perform as part of the plan it presented to the bankruptcy court. TWU 514 has greatly reduced these numbers by fighting extremely hard to keep work at the Tulsa base. This is a great example of what we can do when we stay united and fiercely protect the work of members."

[Townsend]

TWU Local 514 announces Tulsa American Airlines layoffs


http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/twu-local-514-announces-tulsa-american-airlines-layoffs

TULSA - The official number of expected American Airlines worker layoffs in Tulsa has been released.
Transport Workers Union Local 514 announced 443 workers will be affected by layoffs, with around 140 "having to relocate or hit the streets," according to the union website.
American Airlines parent company AMR filed for bankruptcy last November, and originally identified a desired reduction of 2,700 Tulsa jobs, more than a third of the workforce.
More than 700 Tulsa workers took an "early out" retirement offer following the filing.
"We hate to experience even one layoff because we know that impacts one of our members and their family," said Sam Cirri, president of Transport Workers Union Local 514. "But the company originally sought to put over 2,700 of our members on the street as well as outsource the bulk of the work we perform as part of the plan it presented to the bankruptcy court. TWU 514 has greatly reduced these numbers by fighting extremely hard to keep work at the Tulsa base. This is a great example of what we can do when we stay united and fiercely protect the work of members."


Read more: http://www.kjrh.com/dpp/news/local_news/twu-local-514-announces-tulsa-american-airlines-layoffs#ixzz28SYeKUSa

[nathanm]

Turns out they're also laying off all the baggage handlers here, I believe at the end of October. I'm not sure who is getting the outsourcing contract, though.

[Oil Capital]

http://www.newson6.com/story/19748716/number-of-tulsa-american-airlines-workers-to-lose-jobs-140?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitterTWU 514 says the company was originally planning to cut 2,700 jobs in Tulsa, but local union leaders were able to get that number reduced to 1,300.  TWU 514 says 742 workers accepted the company's early out offer.  Another 50 workers will be displaced by American Airlines from other facilities who have greater seniority.  That leaves the number of jobs eliminated at 443.


Good grief.  There is a difference between "jobs cut" or "jobs eliminated" and "people laid off".  Do journalists even read what they write before posting it?  The number of jobs eliminated is 1,300 (actually from the article it looks like it is 1325), not 443.  443 is apparently the number of employees being involuntarily terminated. 

(140 people who have to relocate, plus 443 apparently laid off, plus 742 early retirements = 1325 jobs eliminated from the Tulsa base)

While certainly better than the 2,700 feared, 1,325 eliminated jobs is a pretty major hit for a city such as Tulsa.  I had not been expecting us to take that big of a hit, especially after they announced that they are completely closing the Alliance base.

[Hoss]

http://www.newson6.com/story/19748716/number-of-tulsa-american-airlines-workers-to-lose-jobs-140?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitterTWU 514 says the company was originally planning to cut 2,700 jobs in Tulsa, but local union leaders were able to get that number reduced to 1,300.  TWU 514 says 742 workers accepted the company's early out offer.  Another 50 workers will be displaced by American Airlines from other facilities who have greater seniority.  That leaves the number of jobs eliminated at 443.


Good grief.  There is a difference between "jobs cut" or "jobs eliminated" and "people laid off".  Do journalists even read what they write before posting it?  The number of jobs eliminated is 1,300 (actually from the article it looks like it is 1325), not 443.  443 is apparently the number of employees being involuntarily terminated. 

(140 people who have to relocate, plus 443 apparently laid off, plus 742 early retirements = 1325 jobs eliminated from the Tulsa base)

While certainly better than the 2,700 feared, 1,325 eliminated jobs is a pretty major hit for a city such as Tulsa.  I had not been expecting us to take that big of a hit, especially after they announced that they are completely closing the Alliance base.

Doesn't really matter though; a friend of mine who works for them now and has for about 10 years doesn't know a damn thing about what is going on.  If layoff numbers have now been finalized, wouldn't it be proper form to inform those affected?  Oh, wait...I forgot, this is AMR management we're talking about.

What a bunch of a-holes.

[Oil Capital]

Doesn't really matter though; a friend of mine who works for them now and has for about 10 years doesn't know a damn thing about what is going on.  If layoff numbers have now been finalized, wouldn't it be proper form to inform those affected?  Oh, wait...I forgot, this is AMR management we're talking about.

What a bunch of a-holes.

Actually, this is the union we are talking about, not AMR management.  The union is where this information came from.

[Hoss]

Actually, this is the union we are talking about, not AMR management.  The union is where this information came from.

Ah, correct.  My mistake.

However, it doesn't keep AMR management from being a bunch of a-holes.