Make or Break Time for the Middle Class says Obama

[Red Arrow]

We'd have a payroll tax cut, that's for sure. 

To guarantee that Social Security won't be there for the people that will need it the most.

[Hoss]

And we are lucky it has been.  I hate to think of where we would be if Obama, Pelosi, and Reid had gotten what they really wanted.

Better off?

[Red Arrow]

Better off?

I obviously don't think so or I wouldn't hate to think about it.

[we vs us]

The Dem majority was never completely filibuster proof.  In the House it was for two years, but the Senate never had enough votes for D legislation to just sail through.  Similarly, the Dems have always been bad at enforcing party discipline, and as the Recession got worse, the GOP got more and more shrill, and Obama's leadership receded, they ran for cover every which way.  

The GOP has been obstructionist to an unprecedented degree.  The use of the filibuster has skyrocketed into territory that has no historical comparison.  Likewise, the GOP has blocked Obama nominees for standard executive branch appointments at every turn, as well as his court appointees.  They've even blocked his recess appointments by holding ceremonial continuing sessions through official recesses on their own.  That's left something like a third of the executive branch open positions unfilled.  

Obama's dropped the leadership ball during several different points, but he really has gone up against a minority party that has done everything possible to keep him from governing.  

[we vs us]

To guarantee that Social Security won't be there for the people that will need it the most.

The payroll tax cut will not destroy or diminish Social Security for anyone. 

[Red Arrow]

Obama's dropped the leadership ball during several different points, but he really has gone up against a minority party that has done everything possible to keep him from governing totally destroying the country.  

[Red Arrow]

The payroll tax cut will not destroy or diminish Social Security for anyone. 

Where is the money going to come from?  It's already in trouble, partly because the funds are being used elsewhere.  I haven't seen anything showing that reduced rates will fix that.

[we vs us]

RA, please tell me what specific things Obama was going to do but didn't because the GOP blocked him.  And then please tell me which of those things were going to destroy the country and specifically how.  

I really want to know this.  I perceive him bending over backwards to please your caucus and trying to garner enough votes to pass his legislation.  While I'm a liberal I'm still capable of understanding when something is liberal and conservative, and I'm sure that you and I would agree generally in calling something liberal or conservative. And yet somehow the things that Obama proposes somehow seem to you to be the height of commie insanity while I see them as mildly conservative or only slightly left wing.  How is that?

[we vs us]

If President Obama was any friend to the middle class, we wouldn't have been maintaining 8.5 to 9+% unemployment the last three years.  Sooner or later, the people who voted him in the last time will realize he hasn't done them any favors.  He's made a lot of noise about it, but he's not reigned in the banksters, the 1%'ers, the scurrilous traders and CEO's who have screwed over everyone else.  No, instead, he's dined with them, vacationed with them, and played golf with them, then blames an obstinate GOP for his utter lack of leadership.

To a great degree you're right.  The unemployment rate is inexcusable, and it's been that way for nearly his entire presidency.  Even his proposed legislation has been less than required to put the middle class back on any sort of foundational footing.  Weak sauce in the short and medium term, and even weaker still if we're talking about long term, structural reform.  And no, he hasn't done anything to police or prosecute wrongdoing in the financial sector. 

But the alternative is far far worse.  Nothing I've seen from either Romney or Gingrich suggests that they have anything better to offer.  They're not offering prosecutions or policing of the financial system.  They're not offering anything remotely good for the middle class; in fact everything that's current GOP orthodoxy will reinforce and/or speed up economic inequality.  That's the exactly wrong direction. 

Obama ain't fantastic by a long shot, but given the choice between a slow recovery and a nosedive into political oblivion, I'll take the recovery any day. 

[Red Arrow]

RA, please tell me what specific things Obama was going to do but didn't because the GOP blocked him.

You are the one saying Obama hasn't gotten what he wanted because he had to compromise so much.

The issues that I see are primarily tax issues.  Ending the Bush tax cuts.  It turns out many of them did help the 99%ers.  Picking and choosing which ones became a battle while vilifying Bush.  Claiming that the deficit can be largely solved without dipping into the middle class while increasing spending is part of the reason for class warfare claims.   He has backed off of some regulations he wanted due to the economy.  I am thinking of EPA stuff.  His administration has allowed exemptions to favored organizations to some of the costs of his Health Care package.  I will give him credit for getting Osama, even if he did use information obtained during the Bush administration.  I think he as weakened the world view of the US in an attempt to appease everyone.

And then please tell me which of those things were going to destroy the country and specifically how.

Goals are probably similar: strong economy, more access to health care, national defense.  How to get there is a basic philosophy difference between us.

I really want to know this.  I perceive him bending over backwards to please your caucus and trying to garner enough votes to pass his legislation.  While I'm a liberal I'm still capable of understanding when something is liberal and conservative, and I'm sure that you and I would agree generally in calling something liberal or conservative. And yet somehow the things that Obama proposes somehow seem to you to be the height of commie insanity while I see them as mildly conservative or only slightly left wing.  How is that?

I don't see him bending over backwards.  I see him giving the minimum he can to get his vision implemented. 

I consider you liberal enough that if you look east (right) you see California but not Hawaii.  I am definitely right of center.  I am probably not as right of center as you may think on some social issues but I probably am financially.  I don't think Obama is commie but he certainly has socialist leanings.  Even conservatives have socialist beliefs compared to pure Capitalism, they just won't admit it.  One big issue you and I disagree on is "income equality".   I see no reason to lower top to raise the bottom.  My personal opinion is that many of the big corp CEOs are overpaid but it's not a government problem to fix that.  As a current event: At American, the unions gave a bunch to help prevent bankruptcy a few years back.  When things started turning around (for a while) the big wigs started getting big bonuses.  I think that was wrong to not include the folks who helped make it possible.  If the future isn't secure enough to grant pay raises to the worker bees, give them a one time bonus too.  I cannot speak to whether the labor costs at American are out of line or not.  I do know that I believe that government intervention would be wrong, unless they require a taxpayer bailout.   

Back to equalizing.   I remember one of the efforts to equalize tag costs between cars and small trucks in Oklahoma.  Car owners thought they would get a lot lower price.  Nope, the price of truck tags went up.  Car tags only came down a little, if any.  Since then tag prices have been radically changed.  The second year tag on my BMW in 1996 was about $600.  Sometime after that it had a steep drop but I don't remember when. 

[heironymouspasparagus]

And yet, in spite of all that obstructionism, the economy has been booming along (thanks to Big Banks making their extra hundreds of billions and doling out the huge bonuses to executives!)
And even a few of the 99% are seeing a slight improvement.

[heironymouspasparagus]

The issues that I see are primarily tax issues.  Ending the Bush tax cuts. 

And the obstructionism surrounding that?  When anyone with even less than half a brain understands that those tax cuts are what have made this situation, created by out of control banks, worse.  And that ending those cuts along with cutting spending IS the answer.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Goals are probably similar: strong economy, more access to health care, national defense.  How to get there is a basic philosophy difference between us.

National defense is a whole different thing from national offense - which is what we have practiced for way too long!

[heironymouspasparagus]

One big issue you and I disagree on is "income equality".   I see no reason to lower top to raise the bottom.  My personal opinion is that many of the big corp CEOs are overpaid but it's not a government problem to fix that. 

Never lower the top - raise the bottom!!

It is EXACTLY the governments job to fix that, since the government IS the one that granted all the special privileges to special interests in the tax code.  You know the big ones - where the 1%ers get to pay about 16% and the smaller incomes pay more!

It is a government granted subsidy TO those CEO's that WE get to subsidize.

[Red Arrow]

Never lower the top - raise the bottom!!
It is EXACTLY the governments job to fix that, since the government IS the one that granted all the special privileges to special interests in the tax code.  You know the big ones - where the 1%ers get to pay about 16% and the smaller incomes pay more!
It is a government granted subsidy TO those CEO's that WE get to subsidize.

16%?  Must be a typo.  I didn't think your keyboard had a "6" on it.  Did you ever figure out your overall Federal Income Tax rate.  Tax paid divided by AGI?  Do you take advantage of a 401K or any tax deferred or pre-tax savings or health benefits?  If you have a 401K, does your company match any of your contributions (which don't show as taxable income)?  Unless you are a secret 1%er, the personal exemption and standard deduction are a lot more significant to your tax paid than to someone making really BIG bucks.  Calculate your Federal Income Tax rate based on your gross salary. 

Assuming you are not a secret 1%er, how much do you think your salary will be raised by taxing the super rich more?  Do you really think your taxes will go down?

In the future, consider this response as TAX_RESPONSE_7.  It will be kind of like at work when someone says Joke_7.  Everyone knows what the lines are but time is saved by not actually saying them.