Make or Break Time for the Middle Class says Obama

[heironymouspasparagus]

Glad to see you know more about the oil industry than people in the oil industry know about it.  Maybe I should start listening to you instead of the oil company execs I had lunch with today.  You seem far better versed on the topic than they do.

And while you were at lunch with these oil company execs yesterday, did you happen to ask them, if oil is such a critical national security issue, why they are only using about 1/4 of the available leased and proven reserve lands available to them??

Yes, they do know a lot about it.  And are keeping it as secret as possible.  And not producing when and where they could to relieve the severe oil drought we face in this country!  (Irony and satire, by the way, in case some didn't get it.)

[Conan71]

Luckily, I can rely upon experts who can count up the amount of energy in a barrel of oil and count up the energy used to extract that oil. I don't have to personally understand the entire process any more than Roosevelt had to go to Los Alamos and put together a nuclear bomb himself.

That a person can make money doing something does not necessarily mean it's a great thing to be doing.

Actually, it probably would be a good idea if you knew more about the topic before trying to come off as an expert on the topic.  Everyone here  appreciates you are apparently very-well read and know a little about a lot of different things.  This being another that you know a little about.  Ahem.

Name any refined fuel which doesn't require supplemental BTU input to produce a finished product.  Current oil prices makes all sorts of things economically viable which are not at lower per bbl price. 

[Conan71]

And while you were at lunch with these oil company execs yesterday, did you happen to ask them, if oil is such a critical national security issue, why they are only using about 1/4 of the available leased and proven reserve lands available to them??

Yes, they do know a lot about it.  And are keeping it as secret as possible.  And not producing when and where they could to relieve the severe oil drought we face in this country!  (Irony and satire, by the way, in case some didn't get it.)

I'm sorry, I don't engage in mindless 4th grade liberal patter with my customers like that.

Get rid of trading practices which allow oil to be bought and sold without having to get any grease under the buyer/seller's fingernails and you'd see the price drop overnight.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Actually, it probably would be a good idea if you knew more about the topic before trying to come off as an expert on the topic.  Everyone here  appreciates you are apparently very-well read and know a little about a lot of different things.  This being another that you know a little about.  Ahem.

Name any refined fuel which doesn't require supplemental BTU input to produce a finished product.  Current oil prices makes all sorts of things economically viable which are not at lower per bbl price. 

As well as making solar and wind massive wins!

[Conan71]

Unfortunately, neither have proven practical on a large scale for motor fuels.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I'm sorry, I don't engage in mindless 4th grade liberal patter with my customers like that.

Get rid of trading practices which allow oil to be bought and sold without having to get any grease under the buyer/seller's fingernails and you'd see the price drop overnight.

Trading - yes, getting rid of that - going back to pre-Reagan - would be excellent start.  As I have mentioned here at least once, and I think maybe a second time over a year ago.


Ahhh...4th grade patter....  kind of like that show, "Are you smarter than a 5th grader".  Shows the true depth of the 'stick your head in the sand' approach taken by most people.  I don't blame you - I suspect you were on a sales call, so I absolutely agree that you want on controversy there.  

But when you (the collective 'you' for society as a whole) don't ask those questions outside that venue, you are abdicating one of your responsibilities as a citizen of this country (and maybe the world).  You actively choose to allow a big oil exec to tell you that "oh, my gosh, if we don't drill in ANWR, or we don't drill everywhere in the gulf, or we don't place a Carter's little liver pill under the pillow at night, we will see the collapse of civilization as we know it because we are out of oil".  Which of course is the Big Lie for that industry.

Notice the recent increased hype over the last few months about how much energy we are now producing in the states?  Natural gas, especially.  And all without those extra places that gives these guys w** dreams at night.  So much BS surrounding the topic, and so many people buying into it.  None of whom have even addressed let alone tried to rebut the proposal of using marijuana/hemp/switchgrass as the rational, low cost alternative to drilling more holes in the ground.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Unfortunately, neither have proven practical on a large scale for motor fuels.

But marijuana/hemp/switchgrass have.

And are.

[Gaspar]

But marijuana/hemp/switchgrass have.

And are.

Still not profitable or sustainable yet, but where corn, miscanthus, and "your precious," can produce hundreds of gallons of ethanol per year, new production using algae is producing up to 5,000 gallons of ethanol per acre, and the process is more efficient.  I give it another 10 years. 

It's kinda like solar at this point.  We can't afford to devote 10 acres per person to grow fuel, any more than we can devote 10 acres of solar panels to power an office building. As we become more efficient, and find more efficient methods to produce this energy, the investment will be more sensible.

I'm not sure if you can smoke the algae though, so it may never be a viable energy source to some, nor will it ever be the subject that all threads will point to for some.

[Red Arrow]

Notice the recent increased hype over the last few months about how much energy we are now producing in the states?  Natural gas, especially.  

Natural gas will either go back to not available or become really expensive.  It has something to do with fracking.

[Red Arrow]

And switchgrass is easy??

Yep, just run it through a food blender, then add a few ingredients and water to allow fermentation.  Put it in the pipeline for a few days and when it gets to the destination, it's automobile fuel.

[Red Arrow]

Currently about 65 tankers are used to transport landlocked Alberta's oil products from the Burrand inlet around the world.  The Keystone pipeline could eliminate the need for more than half of these tankers, so it would basically be like eliminating the equivalent emissions of all of the automobiles in the world. . .twice.

Just make the tankers buy carbon credits.

[DolfanBob]

Blah, blah, blah...just like Bush blaming Clinton for 8 years didn't mean anything either.

Blah, blah, blah...just like Clinton blaming...Oh wait, what ?

[Red Arrow]

Blah, blah, blah...just like Clinton blaming...Oh wait, what ?

One of my bosses told me his predecessor left two letters to be used in an emergency marked first emergency and second emergency.  After a while the first emergency happened so my boss opened the first letter.  It said "Blame everything on your predecessor."    Eventually the second emergency happened so my boss opened the second letter.  It said "Write two letters."

[heironymouspasparagus]

Yep, just run it through a food blender, then add a few ingredients and water to allow fermentation.  Put it in the pipeline for a few days and when it gets to the destination, it's automobile fuel.

Exactly.  Just like marijuana/hemp, but half as much for the same price.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Still not profitable or sustainable yet, but where corn, miscanthus, and "your precious," can produce hundreds of gallons of ethanol per year, new production using algae is producing up to 5,000 gallons of ethanol per acre, and the process is more efficient.  I give it another 10 years. 

It's kinda like solar at this point.  We can't afford to devote 10 acres per person to grow fuel, any more than we can devote 10 acres of solar panels to power an office building. As we become more efficient, and find more efficient methods to produce this energy, the investment will be more sensible.

I'm not sure if you can smoke the algae though, so it may never be a viable energy source to some, nor will it ever be the subject that all threads will point to for some.

They would be profitable if done and are already MUCH more sustainable (except corn in both cases).  Precious requires a planter to sow the seeds, a time to wait to let it grown, then a mower to harvest.  Much less infrastructure than corn or algae.  On a par with making hay.  And we make hay for practically nothing.

Algae on the other hand, will have stacks of planters to get the kind of yields you are talking about.  Growing in one plane (like in a pond or salt marsh) will get no where near the yields you are talking about.  Look at the little picture at the top of the page where you got those numbers.  See those racks - that's a tiny bit of the hardware infrastructure needed.  Gotta use comparables....

For everyone else;    http://www.sustainablebusiness.com/index.cfm/go/news.feature/id/1591

Algae without all that would STILL be great.  But on a par with the others.  A lot of salt marshes and swamps out there that are totally wasted on a bunch of alligators and birds.

And then we get to "The Script" again...the only argument the naysayers can make is that "We can't afford to devote 10 acres per person to grow fuel, any more than we can devote 10 acres of solar panels to power an office building."  Like anyone has ever made that argument...not.

Nobody in Reality has ever said that any of these alternatives would do the entire job alone.  But that's what the nattering nabobs of negativity would have us believe. 

The alternatives have ALWAYS been advocated, advanced and recommended as alternatives to relieve the use of other forms of energy in the specific areas where they make sense.  If you make 20% of your electricity with solar, and another 20% with wind, that means there are 40% fewer coal plants or nukes or even gas fired plants required.  And cost is a second order effect in the areas that cover the majority of the population.  Just not Oklahoma - we are spoiled with cheap energy.  That's why Germany is doing exactly that - and almost there.