God's Quarterback

[nathanm]

Actually, it was a decision he made at the urging of physicians and the AMA.  The drug ethinyl estradiol and levonorgestrel causes the natural minstrel cycle to basically take place all at once.  In many cases this results in excessive but manageable bleeding.  In a small but significant number of cases this results in severe hemorrhage that requires medical attention.

If this were true, the FDA would not have approved it for over the counter sale. And it doesn't do what you claim. Believe me, I know, from as nearly close to personal experience as is possible given my gender. Aunt Flo still comes at the normal time.

Also, you are incorrect about the composition of Plan B. It is progestin only. Women can use combination oral contraceptives as emergency contraception if Plan B is unavailable, but they are not available over the counter, nor are they labeled for such use.

I'd love to see a source for your claim that EC has ever caused severe hemorrhages. Relatively heavy menstrual bleeding, I believe. It's a documented effect of stopping the use of progestin. I have not seen one iota of evidence that any woman has ever had anything more than that.

[nathanm]

I will agree that recent Popes seem to be OK.

If the present one hadn't been personally involved in covering up child diddling, he'd be alright. He did tell his flock that it's OK to use a condom if you're shagging a prostitute, after all. That alone should help reduce the incidence of AIDS around the world. Not many popes have saved that many lives.

[nathanm]

A woman choosing to abort is not making a decision about her body, she is making the decision to kill a small child. It's illegal to kill a child, so why should it be legal to kill one just because they're not born yet?

You're simplifying too much. A woman choosing to abort is most certainly making a decision about her body. She is also making a decision regarding a proto-life that may or may not be born alive if the woman chooses not to have an abortion. The rate of miscarriages among women who know they are pregnant is nearly 20%. That's one in five that God, Allah, or FSM aborts all on his own. And that's just the ones we know about. Women are often not aware of their pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage when it happens early.

My stance is that if the proto-baby can live outside the womb on its own, a woman shouldn't, in an ideal world, be able to abort barring some threat to her health. I construe threat quite broadly, however. Before that, it's living on her good will, and she shouldn't be punished any more than she should be if she told the doctors to turn off her probably-dying mother's ventilator.

You are assuming (wrongfully) that all abortions are done to save the life of the mother.

I believe RA is old enough to remember the days of coat hanger abortions. Ban it all you want, it will still happen on a scale that will make your eyes pop.

[Red Arrow]

I believe RA is old enough to remember the days of coat hanger abortions. Ban it all you want, it will still happen on a scale that will make your eyes pop.

Yes, I am that old.  I don't believe I even knew anyone who had one.  The coat hangar type abortions were one of the reasons the abortion laws were changed. At least that's the way I remember it.

[Red Arrow]

If the present one hadn't been personally involved in covering up child diddling, he'd be alright. He did tell his flock that it's OK to use a condom if you're shagging a prostitute, after all. That alone should help reduce the incidence of AIDS around the world. Not many popes have saved that many lives.

As ancient as I am, I don't personally remember Popes from Medieval times.  I think they had some characteristics that would be unacceptable today. I don't remember the details from history classes from several decades ago.

[custosnox]

You're simplifying too much. A woman choosing to abort is most certainly making a decision about her body. She is also making a decision regarding a proto-life that may or may not be born alive if the woman chooses not to have an abortion. The rate of miscarriages among women who know they are pregnant is nearly 20%. That's one in five that God, Allah, or FSM aborts all on his own. And that's just the ones we know about. Women are often not aware of their pregnancy and subsequent miscarriage when it happens early.

My stance is that if the proto-baby can live outside the womb on its own, a woman shouldn't, in an ideal world, be able to abort barring some threat to her health. I construe threat quite broadly, however. Before that, it's living on her good will, and she shouldn't be punished any more than she should be if she told the doctors to turn off her probably-dying mother's ventilator.

I believe RA is old enough to remember the days of coat hanger abortions. Ban it all you want, it will still happen on a scale that will make your eyes pop.

Do you have anything to back up that 20% number? 
Curious, do you condone the use of abortion as a means of birth control? 

[heironymouspasparagus]

If the present one hadn't been personally involved in covering up child diddling, he'd be alright. He did tell his flock that it's OK to use a condom if you're shagging a prostitute, after all. That alone should help reduce the incidence of AIDS around the world. Not many popes have saved that many lives.

How can that be?  There is at least one verse that covers exactly that circumstance and it says it is better to put the seed into the belly of the prostitute than to spill elsewhere.

[RecycleMichael]

Thank Tebow it's Friday.

[dbacks fan]

From Faux News after the debate last night, 'Rick Perry is the Tim Tebow conservative.'

[nathanm]

Do you have anything to back up that 20% number? 
Curious, do you condone the use of abortion as a means of birth control? 

Yes, NIH has a nice little fact sheet: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/001488.htm

Note that it only includes known pregnancies/miscarriages. As I mentioned earlier, studies have been done to assess the natural rate. I believe they were following long term and regularly testing women for some other study and tossed in the pregnancy tests just to see. I haven't read the papers or seen a definitive NIH/FDA/etc. fact sheet. (the government agencies are pretty conservative as to what they trot out as fact, for obvious reasons)

As far as abortion as birth control, sure, if that's how women decide they want to use it, it's their body and at the point you can reasonably call it birth control there's no way a proto-baby is going to live outside the womb. However, I would much rather women instead use contraceptives.

What really gets my goat about the abortion debate is that we already know how to reduce abortion rates: sex ed, lifting people out of poverty, and better availability of contraception, including emergency contraception. Instead, people like Gaspar insist on acting like (I presume he doesn't actually believe this, even if it looks like it to me) pregnancy is a punishment for teenage bucking and try to keep Plan B out of the hands of the very people who will be most impacted by an unintended pregnancy.

[heironymouspasparagus]

What really gets my goat about the abortion debate is that we already know how to reduce abortion rates: sex ed, lifting people out of poverty, and better availability of contraception, including emergency contraception. Instead, people like Gaspar insist on acting like (I presume he doesn't actually believe this, even if it looks like it to me) pregnancy is a punishment for teenage bucking and try to keep Plan B out of the hands of the very people who will be most impacted by an unintended pregnancy.

It all goes back to the 'just say no' mentality that pushes abstinence as the only valid means of not getting knocked up.  And if the history of the world has shown us anything, it's that abstinence is NOT in the cards.  Ever.

Other means must be available, and it is massively more important to do the sex ed, out of poverty, better availability things BEFORE it gets to the point a person even has the opportunity to choose an abortion.  Spending a huge pile of money on that stuff just to prevent one abortion is very much fine by me!

[dbacks fan]

To paraphrase Barry O: 'We can't have, uh, uh, this, uh medication, ah, um, available, ah, over the counter, ah, ah, where, um, ah, uh, 10 & 11 year olds can, ah, umm, see it next to, ah, ah, the place on the, ah, shelf, ah, ah, um, next to where they buy, ah, um, um, their candy and such.' This was his presser on the day after pill as an OTC medication.

[nathanm]

Other means must be available, and it is massively more important to do the sex ed, out of poverty, better availability things BEFORE it gets to the point a person even has the opportunity to choose an abortion.  Spending a huge pile of money on that stuff just to prevent one abortion is very much fine by me!

Agreed. Reducing abortion through positive means is far better than government telling a woman she must do something with her body.

[guido911]

Just trying to bring science asshattery into the discussion....

Fixed that one.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Fixed that one.

Yeah....rrrrriiiiiiiiggggggghhhhhhhtttttttttt!!!!!!!!