"The Pearl" an area that will go down in History as a turning point in Tulsa

[AquaMan]

Something deeper is needed in Tulsa than just mass-transit improvements, a full river, better street lights, inner city infill. Reading our posts we seem to love someone else and yet are staying faithful and hopeful to our Tulsa.

Leaves are falling and my neighbors do not rake them out of the street gutter and drains.  Have you rode a bus lately.  I don't drive anymore, I use the bus and walk.  It is a rude, crude, loud, unconcerned trip to ride the bus often.  If a person visits and rides the 203 from the airport I would bet money, the odds are, they will take a taxi to go back home.

Don't get me wrong, I love Tulsa.  I do cheat on her; even with Kansas City.

While my car was down, I rode the 117 and 118 for a few weeks till I could save the money for the repairs. Was not bad after you figured out the routes, stops and times. Got to plan more but the riders were simply working class folks. Some dirty, some drinking, most poor and lots of different languages. That puts off some people.

[AquaMan]

Something deeper is needed in Tulsa than just mass-transit improvements, a full river, better street lights, inner city infill. Reading our posts we seem to love someone else and yet are staying faithful and hopeful to our Tulsa.

Leaves are falling and my neighbors do not rake them out of the street gutter and drains.  Have you rode a bus lately.  I don't drive anymore, I use the bus and walk.  It is a rude, crude, loud, unconcerned trip to ride the bus often.  If a person visits and rides the 203 from the airport I would bet money, the odds are, they will take a taxi to go back home.

Don't get me wrong, I love Tulsa.  I do cheat on her; even with Kansas City.

And this. Met a fellow a few years older than me last week. He had just returned from Anchorage and was relating how compact the city is even though its larger than Tulsa and how truly friendly the people were. He said, "You know they were alot like what Tulsans used to be like and still think they are."

[heironymouspasparagus]

And that's the key to the whole house. People up there are smart because their parents and grandparents invested in education when ours did not.
Even as a child I remember kids coming from Iowa who were a grade level ahead of us at the same age. That education then enabled them to solve the problems we find insurmountable. The best education here is a careful route planned through TPS or private schools. It seems our legislators want to strangle one child in hopes the other will be more successful.

The whole point of my post was that they have found out how to integrate mass transit, quality road construction and growth in both inner city and suburbs while improving their quality of life. They did it and kept taxes manageable. They have good governance that stems from their good educations. As a contrast, Bartlett could not have been elected without the suburban vote and his first declaration is to put water in the river even though south Tulsa voted against the previous water in the river issues!

I refuse to believe the only reason is that they are simply smarter than us. They transcend their political, racial and religious differences. We don't.

I lived in Iowa for a while and after 5th grade returned here.  We got into new material in Tulsa, that I had not already done, just before Christmas break in 8th grade.


Your comment about strangling versus encouraging is absolutely dead on - you cannot have a society of "serfs" without ensuring the serfs are diverted to the correct slot.

[MyDogHunts]

You mention leaves - I saw the most amazing thing over Thanksgiving in a small town in eastern Appalachia Tennessee.  When someone has many (or just a few) trees in their yard, instead of raking, mulching, bagging, burning, etc, they can have their yard care people come by with the grass blowers and blow the leaves to the curb!...

This is an example of how city services should work - to the benefit of the citizens!

When I lived in Wellesley, MA they were noted as having a very progressive recycle system.  I attribute it somewhat to the female influence there.  Anyway, going to the dump was cool.  Recycling everything!  It's like a giant garage sale, you bring stuff and sometimes you take stuff home.  One friend had 50 or so old chairs that he planned on refinishing in his retirement.  They hung from his basement ceiling and were all brought home from the dump.  And leaves were converted to compost and we all got to take so much.  I loved it... told my wife about it all the time.  Then one Saturday she said she wanted to go and it happened to be an election week.  Well, considering that this is where everyone in town came who was standing along the road in?  People running for office waiting to shake hands.  In suit and tie.  When my wife saw it, and I had told here many stories of how cool this place was, I turned and said: "Should we valet park?"

And that's the key to the whole house. People up there are smart because their parents and grandparents invested in education when ours did not...

I refuse to believe the only reason is that they are simply smarter than us. They transcend their political, racial and religious differences. We don't.

Yup.  We need more transportation options and all of that stuff but you said it: education and racial / religious harmony!  To bad we can't foie gras ourselves with forced taxes, smarts, & love & acceptance.

[Rookie Okie]

Education is the key.  Always heard it said that when you know better you do better.  Education leads to enlightenment, and enlightenment will allow political, religious, racial and other differences and baggage to be transcended.  We need to overcome all such pettiness to move this city forward. 

People in Tulsa and every other city cite crime as one of the top 1 or 2 overriding problems.  Then there is the outcry for more police as if more would somehow reduce or deter crime.  The best way (perhaps the only way) to reduce crime long term is to educate our citizenry.  Educated communities will improve economically through better paying jobs, allowing for the eradication of poverty.  But more importantly, eradicating the pathology of poverty that sometimes crosses the line into criminal activity as an economic means to an end.

I am not an educator nor a reformer and can't offer quality solutions to bridge the educational gaps pervasive in Tulsa (but I would do what I can).  I wouldn't underestimate Tulsa, there appears to be enough serious brainpower here to address these structural issues from the core.  However, in order to do so, the petty differences and baggage need to be checked at the door.

I also like the earlier suggestion posted in regards to providing good citizenship and life skills training.  Basic respect and civility are sorely lacking in our society.  We can't even come to the table to discuss ideas and proposals in this country without leveling personal attacks.  Thus, I would not want to limit this training to our youth, but would also recommend extending it to adults as well.

[heironymouspasparagus]

Education is the key.  Always heard it said that when you know better you do better.  Education leads to enlightenment, and enlightenment will allow political, religious, racial and other differences and baggage to be transcended.  We need to overcome all such pettiness to move this city forward. 

People in Tulsa and every other city cite crime as one of the top 1 or 2 overriding problems.  Then there is the outcry for more police as if more would somehow reduce or deter crime.  The best way (perhaps the only way) to reduce crime long term is to educate our citizenry.  Educated communities will improve economically through better paying jobs, allowing for the eradication of poverty.  But more importantly, eradicating the pathology of poverty that sometimes crosses the line into criminal activity as an economic means to an end.

But then, an educated populace would make it that much more difficult for the powers that be to skim their 10%  off the top.... they really don't want education.  As can be seen by Fallin's ensuring/continuing 30% cuts to education in the state....

[carltonplace]

Education is the key.  Always heard it said that when you know better you do better.  Education leads to enlightenment, and enlightenment will allow political, religious, racial and other differences and baggage to be transcended.  We need to overcome all such pettiness to move this city forward. 

People in Tulsa and every other city cite crime as one of the top 1 or 2 overriding problems.  Then there is the outcry for more police as if more would somehow reduce or deter crime.  The best way (perhaps the only way) to reduce crime long term is to educate our citizenry.  Educated communities will improve economically through better paying jobs, allowing for the eradication of poverty.  But more importantly, eradicating the pathology of poverty that sometimes crosses the line into criminal activity as an economic means to an end.

I am not an educator nor a reformer and can't offer quality solutions to bridge the educational gaps pervasive in Tulsa (but I would do what I can).  I wouldn't underestimate Tulsa, there appears to be enough serious brainpower here to address these structural issues from the core.  However, in order to do so, the petty differences and baggage need to be checked at the door.

I also like the earlier suggestion posted in regards to providing good citizenship and life skills training.  Basic respect and civility are sorely lacking in our society.  We can't even come to the table to discuss ideas and proposals in this country without leveling personal attacks.  Thus, I would not want to limit this training to our youth, but would also recommend extending it to adults as well.

Well said.

[Conan71]

Education is the key.  Always heard it said that when you know better you do better.  Education leads to enlightenment, and enlightenment will allow political, religious, racial and other differences and baggage to be transcended.  We need to overcome all such pettiness to move this city forward. 

People in Tulsa and every other city cite crime as one of the top 1 or 2 overriding problems.  Then there is the outcry for more police as if more would somehow reduce or deter crime.  The best way (perhaps the only way) to reduce crime long term is to educate our citizenry.  Educated communities will improve economically through better paying jobs, allowing for the eradication of poverty.  But more importantly, eradicating the pathology of poverty that sometimes crosses the line into criminal activity as an economic means to an end.

I am not an educator nor a reformer and can't offer quality solutions to bridge the educational gaps pervasive in Tulsa (but I would do what I can).  I wouldn't underestimate Tulsa, there appears to be enough serious brainpower here to address these structural issues from the core.  However, in order to do so, the petty differences and baggage need to be checked at the door.

I also like the earlier suggestion posted in regards to providing good citizenship and life skills training.  Basic respect and civility are sorely lacking in our society.  We can't even come to the table to discuss ideas and proposals in this country without leveling personal attacks.  Thus, I would not want to limit this training to our youth, but would also recommend extending it to adults as well.

The key to better education starts in the home, not the schoolhouse.  People who are brought up surrounded by people who didn't put emphasis on their own education and who don't prioritize their children's education are almost guaranteed certain failure.  This comes along with the gradual erosions of morals in a society.  I'm no fan of organized religion, and that even seems to corrupt some people.  But there is a lack of spirituality and discipline in society today which I think is the root cause of crime and poverty. 

You really need to look no further than the "role models" in reality TV to see how dumbed down we have become as a society.  People look for the easy buck instead of realizing hard work is the key to long term success.

[Rookie Okie]

C, I concur with what you've said.  Good education should start in the home. However, but  have witnessed several generations of widespread dysfunctional families, so much so that there isn't even a safety net of grandparents that could fill the voids of "lost and out there" parents because they themselves are just as lost and caught up.  In these situations there is NO foundation from which to start.  But I cannot concede certain failure because there is always some hope (no matter how small) and miracles do happen.  I've worked with some kids who amazingly beat some astronomical odds to get on a successful path.  So I'm always willing to do what I can to support and encourage.

Perhaps the root causes of poverty and crime did start in part with a lack of spirituality and discipline, but that occurred a long time ago.  The sad reality is that so many children (and now several generations of them) are innocently born into stuff for which to them is normal and they've had no other experience for which to judge it by.  In this respect, they are no different than any other children because they are not expected to be anything other than products of their environment.

I don't watch a nanosecond of reality TV.  It is sad when the entitlement culture perpetrated by pseudo celebrities with no redeeming qualities overreaches into the margins of society.  Way too many train wrecks is what you get.  Only in America is it possible to literally market and quite successfully sell a non productive "self." 

I'm not a social engineer by any means.  My original intent was to make the point that it will take a better educated society to overcome the barriers that prevent the city from making the kinds of significant strides forward that many folks here are envisioning.  There is a strong correlation between better educated cities and vibrant urbanism with Mpls-St. Paul, Seattle, Denver, Portland, and numerous Canadian cities as several leading examples.  I know some may not agree, but I believe that Tulsa can get in the mix too....

[MyDogHunts]

I agree that Tulsa has the feel of a city that can overcome a list of issues and become a true gem.  We have the largest Community Fund in the nation, bigger than NYC; and it is backed mostly with money that aims at education.  And it somehow funds the Gathering Place as well... which is cool.

Did I get this right?

Anyway.  If we can't do it, the whole of the world is mucked.  Wow, it comes down to that.  Heavy burden Tulsa.

[AquaMan]

Strangely, the world survives and prospers without ever visiting or even knowing about Tulsa. You may remove that burden. We have this super estimation of ourselves and our potential that is curious to others. We are a city whose politics, racism and religion have held us back because we steadfastly refuse to elect those who are most qualified to represent us. Thus, we have sketchy leadership.

From there it cascades. That leadership appoints authority leadership, decides who is worthy for party support, who is invisible and who is celebrated, mostly based on non performance characteristics. Then we marvel at how wasteful and inefficient government is and blame it on the hourly workers and the unions.

The foundations and uber wealthy (as well as a small core of enlightened attorneys and corporations) are the only real points of light here and its their support for education, paths, downtown development and possible river development that provides the real leadership. Drop Kaisers support for the Gathering Place, drop Zarrow's education support and put it all to a vote of the people. Then you'll see Tulsa's potential in real terms.

Its education, but its more than that. Culture counts.

[Conan71]

C, I concur with what you've said.  Good education should start in the home. However, but  have witnessed several generations of widespread dysfunctional families, so much so that there isn't even a safety net of grandparents that could fill the voids of "lost and out there" parents because they themselves are just as lost and caught up.  In these situations there is NO foundation from which to start.  But I cannot concede certain failure because there is always some hope (no matter how small) and miracles do happen.  I've worked with some kids who amazingly beat some astronomical odds to get on a successful path.  So I'm always willing to do what I can to support and encourage.

Perhaps the root causes of poverty and crime did start in part with a lack of spirituality and discipline, but that occurred a long time ago.  The sad reality is that so many children (and now several generations of them) are innocently born into stuff for which to them is normal and they've had no other experience for which to judge it by.  In this respect, they are no different than any other children because they are not expected to be anything other than products of their environment.

I don't watch a nanosecond of reality TV.  It is sad when the entitlement culture perpetrated by pseudo celebrities with no redeeming qualities overreaches into the margins of society.  Way too many train wrecks is what you get.  Only in America is it possible to literally market and quite successfully sell a non productive "self." 

I'm not a social engineer by any means.  My original intent was to make the point that it will take a better educated society to overcome the barriers that prevent the city from making the kinds of significant strides forward that many folks here are envisioning.  There is a strong correlation between better educated cities and vibrant urbanism with Mpls-St. Paul, Seattle, Denver, Portland, and numerous Canadian cities as several leading examples.  I know some may not agree, but I believe that Tulsa can get in the mix too....

Very well said.  I'd suspect those who have crawled out of their societal swamp had a role model somewhere that inspired them to work hard to overcome a rough childhood and indifferent or absentee parents.  There certainly are good teachers I can remember who seemed to teach because they really cared and wanted to make a difference.  I also recall some who were doing nothing but collecting a paycheck and holding out for retirement.  Fortunately, those were few.

[TheArtist]

The key to better education starts in the home, not the schoolhouse.  People who are brought up surrounded by people who didn't put emphasis on their own education and who don't prioritize their children's education are almost guaranteed certain failure.  This comes along with the gradual erosions of morals in a society.  I'm no fan of organized religion, and that even seems to corrupt some people.  But there is a lack of spirituality and discipline in society today which I think is the root cause of crime and poverty. 

You really need to look no further than the "role models" in reality TV to see how dumbed down we have become as a society.  People look for the easy buck instead of realizing hard work is the key to long term success.

Lets go with your premises that "better education starts in the home".  How do you get that to happen?  Wag your finger at the person and say "Be a good parent!" and then walk off job done?  That's not going to work.  These parents are sometimes no more than kids themselves, perhaps on drugs, welfare, have bad life habits and skills, drop outs, etc. etc.  What kind of system would it take to change them?  How much time/money bureaucracy (either government or private sector) would it take to help them.  However, those kids in school now (who will be the parents of tomorrow) are a captive audience with a huge infrastructure already set up which could be used with far less effort etc. than setting up a new system for the parents.  People always say it's the parents, but ok, what do you do about that?

Was reading an article yesterday where people were looking at what other countries were doing right to have better educated children (and thus parents).  One thing they noticed than in most countries doing better than us, those children who needed the most, got the most help.  In the US, that's the opposite.  With property taxes funding schools it often happens that those who need the least get the most, and those who need the most get the least.

However, this notion must also be paired with this...

It's indeed not always about throwing more money at the schools.  Many countries do well with less, on average, than we do.  (Which begs the thought that those who have the best parents and advantages and who already get more under our system,,, well they are getting WAY more than is needed and that shows how much more wasteful and tragic our system is.)   

I always believe one should first start with, "What needs to be done. What's the best most cost effective way to do it?... then fund that.  Don't automatically start with, we will need more money, right off the bat.  If it actually turns out that some children do need more and that requires more money, then so be it.  Also it must stand to reason that if there are those that need less, then why spend more money than is needed, especially if it turns out there is a need for it elsewhere?

[Red Arrow]

Lets go with your premises that "better education starts in the home".  How do you get that to happen?  Wag your finger at the person and say "Be a good parent!" and then walk off job done?  That's not going to work.  These parents are sometimes no more than kids themselves, perhaps on drugs, welfare, have bad life habits and skills, drop outs, etc. etc.  What kind of system would it take to change them?  How much time/money bureaucracy (either government or private sector) would it take to help them.  However, those kids in school now (who will be the parents of tomorrow) are a captive audience with a huge infrastructure already set up which could be used with far less effort etc. than setting up a new system for the parents.  People always say it's the parents, but ok, what do you do about that?

Was reading an article yesterday where people were looking at what other countries were doing right to have better educated children (and thus parents).  One thing they noticed than in most countries doing better than us, those children who needed the most, got the most help.  In the US, that's the opposite.  With property taxes funding schools it often happens that those who need the least get the most, and those who need the most get the least.

However, this notion must also be paired with this...

It's indeed not always about throwing more money at the schools.  Many countries do well with less, on average, than we do.  (Which begs the thought that those who have the best parents and advantages and who already get more under our system,,, well they are getting WAY more than is needed and that shows how much more wasteful and tragic our system is.)   

I always believe one should first start with, "What needs to be done. What's the best most cost effective way to do it?... then fund that.  Don't automatically start with, we will need more money, right off the bat.  If it actually turns out that some children do need more and that requires more money, then so be it.  Also it must stand to reason that if there are those that need less, then why spend more money than is needed, especially if it turns out there is a need for it elsewhere?

It almost sounds like you are saying that we should intentionally put the presently advantaged kids at a disadvantage to even things out.  Leveling the playing field by lowering the top is not the way to go in my opinion. Who gets to decide what the presently advantaged kids need?  My parents did OK but my brother had a reading disability in his younger years.  Are you saying we should have condemned him to be a high school dropout instead of going on to become a Mechanical Engineer because my parents were not dirt poor?  I certainly hope not.

I recognize the blood and turnip thing but perhaps if the parents of presently disadvantaged kids had a bigger financial stake in their kids' education the parents might care a bit more.  If that means a bigger stretch, so be it.  The fact that it would be a larger percentage of those parents' resources than someone like Guido is fine by me.  It might make them demand that the schools become what they could be rather than just a place to send their kids for a few hours a day.  It's difficult to motivate folks to demand improvements in something that appears to be free.  (I know it's not really free because even property taxes are indirectly paid by renters.  The indirect thing really works though.  Think about "income tax refunds".)

[Conan71]

Lets go with your premises that "better education starts in the home".  How do you get that to happen?  Wag your finger at the person and say "Be a good parent!" and then walk off job done?  That's not going to work.  These parents are sometimes no more than kids themselves, perhaps on drugs, welfare, have bad life habits and skills, drop outs, etc. etc.  What kind of system would it take to change them?  How much time/money bureaucracy (either government or private sector) would it take to help them.  However, those kids in school now (who will be the parents of tomorrow) are a captive audience with a huge infrastructure already set up which could be used with far less effort etc. than setting up a new system for the parents.  People always say it's the parents, but ok, what do you do about that?

Was reading an article yesterday where people were looking at what other countries were doing right to have better educated children (and thus parents).  One thing they noticed than in most countries doing better than us, those children who needed the most, got the most help.  In the US, that's the opposite.  With property taxes funding schools it often happens that those who need the least get the most, and those who need the most get the least.

However, this notion must also be paired with this...

It's indeed not always about throwing more money at the schools.  Many countries do well with less, on average, than we do.  (Which begs the thought that those who have the best parents and advantages and who already get more under our system,,, well they are getting WAY more than is needed and that shows how much more wasteful and tragic our system is.)   

I always believe one should first start with, "What needs to be done. What's the best most cost effective way to do it?... then fund that.  Don't automatically start with, we will need more money, right off the bat.  If it actually turns out that some children do need more and that requires more money, then so be it.  Also it must stand to reason that if there are those that need less, then why spend more money than is needed, especially if it turns out there is a need for it elsewhere?

You and I have had that discussion before and it's probably the most frustrating question of all: Just how do you get someone to become a better parent?

Unfortunately, there is no amount of government or forced spiritual intervention that can force people into becoming responsible parents or citizens.  That comes from within.  Either from a strong desire to change one's circumstances in life or a role model who finally inspired someone to want to change.

I've seen people get their crap together after multiple brushes with the law due to alcohol or drug abuse by simply realizing a life of prison and/or  overdoses isn't for them.  I've seen people who were destitute and hopeless become productive people after getting into and staying with a 12 step program which does involve a spiritual awakening.

As a society we do have mentorship programs such as Big Brothers & Sisters, we offer any number of rehab programs via the state and faith-based organizations.  It's not like there isn't any outreach to help people improve themselves.  Unfortunately, some people choose to live a life of mediocrity and dependence rather than one of self-reliance and responsibility.  I'm a big believer in school volunteer programs and mentorship programs which provide a positive role model for children who come from troubled homes or single parent households where the parent may be a great parent, but they work three jobs to keep a roof over their head and can't spend much time with their child(ren).

For those kids who come from crappy households, the best we can do is try and provide positive role models away from their home who believe in them and will inspire them.