"The Pearl" an area that will go down in History as a turning point in Tulsa

[rebound]

by the 1960s and 1970s when downtown pedestrian malls were built...

emphasis added

And that was 40-50 years ago, and a different generation (or two) of people.  Living patterns change now just like they did back then.

[takemebacktotulsa]

I'm guessing in 40 or 50 (probably sooner) years we'll be reading about the failure of suburbs. I mean, they are a fairly new concept in terms of city development.

[guido911]

And that was 40-50 years ago, and a different generation (or two) of people.  Living patterns change now just like they did back then.

And that's my point. The 60s-70s idea of "going downtown" to shop, dine, etc. is gone. Modern transportation, technology, and businesses  popping up where the people are (and obviously other factors) makes downtowns sort of obsolete. What we are left with is event-driven or gimmicky ideas to lure folks away from what is truly local. Seriously, we have a new arena and ballfield, an engineered "lake", large daily influx of people working, a "how many mile long" park, whatever "Brady" district is calling itself, etc., and we are talking about how that STILL isn't enough. We need mass transit, walkability, bike paths, and whatever else because THAT will change everything.

[carltonplace]

Guido you and your hand grenade posts crack me up

[RecycleMichael]

The 60s-70s idea of "going downtown" to shop, dine, etc. is gone.

We truly must just run in different circles.

My parents who live in South Tulsa have tried every downtown restaurant. My kids want to go to Guthrie Green on Sundays and my daughter thinks Dwelling Spaces has the best t-shirts and jewelry. I had a conversation last night with a tow truck driver from Sand Springs (car wouldn't start) who said there ain't no good restaurants in Sand Springs and his family eats at Joe Momma's every Tuesday night.

[guido911]

We truly must just run in different circles.

My parents who live in South Tulsa have tried every downtown restaurant. My kids want to go to Guthrie Green on Sundays and my daughter thinks Dwelling Spaces has the best t-shirts and jewelry. I had a conversation last night with a tow truck driver from Sand Springs (car wouldn't start) who said there ain't no good restaurants in Sand Springs and his family eats at Joe Momma's every Tuesday night.

No question we run in different circles. I have lived in several large cities and have grown to despise "downtown". Tulsa's downtown is in its current shape for a reason. So is South Memorial at 169, Tulsa Hills, and the restaurant row area. You and others can provide anecdotal examples, but the fact remains that despite pouring in millions (which I supported) it is still a destination for those accustomed to it. All I am saying is direct resources towards the current trends and where we all can get the most bang for our buck. Downtown is not that place. Downtown is a place to work, for the homeless to hang out, and a place to occasionally go for an event. Focus on that.

[guido911]

Guido you and your hand grenade posts crack me up

You are welcome.

[rdj]

Ever thought downtown is being rebuilt for those that already live in Tulsa but for those we need to live here?

[TheArtist]

No question we run in different circles. I have lived in several large cities and have grown to despise "downtown". Tulsa's downtown is in its current shape for a reason. So is South Memorial at 169, Tulsa Hills, and the restaurant row area. You and others can provide anecdotal examples, but the fact remains that despite pouring in millions (which I supported) it is still a destination for those accustomed to it. All I am saying is direct resources towards the current trends and where we all can get the most bang for our buck. Downtown is not that place. Downtown is a place to work, for the homeless to hang out, and a place to occasionally go for an event. Focus on that.

Cities all over the country are reaping the benefits of downtowns that are revitalizing and serving the needs and desires of the ever growing number of people who want to live, work, shop and play in good urban environments.  Often once stagnant and declining downtowns are in many instances growing faster than other areas of the city. (btw, Tulsa is barely growing at all, over the last 5 years we have lost jobs, and the population growth is stagnant at best, while other cities with good urban areas and better urban zoning are outpacing us, Tulsa Hills is small potatoes compared to the kind of growth and development in many of our competitor cities, especially their downtowns.) There definitely seems to be a desire for growth in downtown Tulsa as it seems that just about every new housing development sells out and many have waiting lists.  More and more retail keeps going in as well.  As recent news has obviously shown, we are also seeing a new influx of hotels lol.  I could go on but the "recent trends" as you put it are obvious. Urban areas are back, whether we like it or not.

But my concern isn't about whether or not we are going to have more growth downtown, we will and the pace of it will only increase.  My, and others concern is about the type and quality of that growth.  One huge determiner of that will be zoning. Other cities that have put in place good urban zoning rules, (just like you have suburban zoning in those areas you mentioned) we need the right kind of zoning for our urban areas as well.  

Anyway, gotta go. Got customers... in my shop... downtown. 

[rebound]

As recent news has obviously shown, we are also seeing a new influx of hotels lol.  I could go on but the "recent trends" as you put it are obvious. Urban areas are back, whether we like it or not.

I don't know how old anybody on here is, but I think most of this is a generational paradigm shift, and there is a good chance that if a person (including me) is not of the right generation (read "too old"), we simply cannot comprehend why that generation would think the way they do.  I just listened to a radio discussion on what Millennials (those born from the early-mid '80's to the early '00s) value and want, and I confess that I could not identify with some of it.  However, a lot of those trends/topics align with this discussion.  They want more urban living, more mass-transit, etc, and (generally) shun suburbia and all it stands for.

Tulsa already has plenty of suburban amenities for any-and-all who want to live here.  We're good there.  That's not the case for urban.  We should not be investing for what is now, but for what is coming.  Or, we can be left behind and continue to lose those people to OKC, KC, Dallas, etc.

[Conan71]

I don't know how old anybody on here is, but I think most of this is a generational paradigm shift, and there is a good chance that if a person (including me) is not of the right generation (read "too old"), we simply cannot comprehend why that generation would think the way they do.  I just listened to a radio discussion on what Millennials (those born from the early-mid '80's to the early '00s) value and want, and I confess that I could not identify with some of it.  However, a lot of those trends/topics align with this discussion.  They want more urban living, more mass-transit, etc, and (generally) shun suburbia and all it stands for.

Tulsa already has plenty of suburban amenities for any-and-all who want to live here.  We're good there.  That's not the case for urban.  We should not be investing for what is now, but for what is coming.  Or, we can be left behind and continue to lose those people to OKC, KC, Dallas, etc.

My teen years were in suburbia.  Starting my adult life, I lived downtown, then midtown, then did suburbia again and moved back to midtown.  I'll stay in midtown as long as I'm in Tulsa.  I'm in my late 40's so perhaps I'm drawn to downtown as in my earlier memories, both parents worked downtown and it was still a place to go shop, as well as Utica Square.  I never really warmed up to mega-malls.  Perhaps I'm just old enough to appreciate the inner city more than the suburbs.  There's pluses to living either place, I just know where my preferences lie.

[guido911]

Ever thought downtown is being rebuilt for those that already live in Tulsa but for those we need to live here?

I have thought about that. And that basis sounds like gambling to me. I guess a question I have is where is the residential/business growth in the Tulsa area? Are people moving downtown?

[TheArtist]

I have thought about that. And that basis sounds like gambling to me. I guess a question I have is where is the residential/business growth in the Tulsa area? Are people moving downtown?

Absolutely there are people moving downtown.   One of the tricks about downtown in it's current phase is that a lot of the "growth" is with the rehabilitation of buildings that were empty and often were empty for a long time. (the space where my shop now is was abandoned, except as some storage for a time, for about 30 years) Thus you do not readily see at first glance, a lot of the growth like you would out in the suburbs if a lot of new homes were going in.  If the infill development were happening as suburban style development with say single family detached homes in some vacant field instead of loft or apartment homes going into buildings that already exist (and now several new buildings and apartment complexes), you would have seen several new neighborhoods worth of homes going in. Hundreds of new homes.  Then add to that all the shops, hotels, parks, museums, entertainment venues, cafe's & restaurants, gyms, art galleries, new office tower, church expansions, etc.  if all that had been going into some vacant field out south you would say that area was going gangbusters.

[Red Arrow]

Absolutely there are people moving downtown.  

I love it.  The more people that have an opportunity to live in dense conditions downtown, the less housing we need out "here" with houses 5 feet from their neighbor.  We won't need to widen Memorial to 8 lanes.......

I really do want the opportunity for people who want to live in an urban environment to have it.  It's not for me though and folks putting in 5 or more houses per acre out here are driving me nuts(er).  Viva downtown!

No kidding.

[saintnicster]

I have thought about that. And that basis sounds like gambling to me. I guess a question I have is where is the residential/business growth in the Tulsa area? Are people moving downtown?

I did. 

Crashed with my dad in south Tulsa (92ish and memorial) for a couple months after graduating from TU.  Absolutely hated driving commuting into Downtown.  As soon as I built up some funds, I ended up moving to Westport on the River, staying for around 2.5 years. After that, I moved to the University Club tower, stayed there for another 2.5. For part of it, I actually walked into Downtown for brunch on Sundays,

Now, I live in GreenArch and do not look back.  I fully support being able to walk to places, and look forward to the day when we have even closer grocery options.  I absolutely hated commuting into Downtown for work via the BA Expressway or I-244.