Could Phoenix Coyotes make Tulsa their new home?

[Laramie]

"Funk also speculated that an NHL team could land in Tulsa, if an NBA team is in Oklahoma City. Tulsa is building a new downtown arena scheduled to open in 2008.":

Taken from a new article back in 2008 when Penguins were considering a move: http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/news/story?id=2722259 

An NBA team has landed in Oklahoma City; both Tulsa and Oklahoma City could make strange bedfellows.

Many nay-sayers said that an NHL or NBA team would never survive in Oklahoma.  Tulsa has the new BOK Center which had better amenities than the Oklahoma City Arena (current: Chesapeake Energy Arena) during its initial opening.

As far as the capacity to support one major professional sports franchise; Tulsa has as much potential as Oklahoma City.  The numbers which Tulsa has now were very comparable to the numbers Oklahoma City had when the New Orleans Hornets were transplanted to OKC.

The NHL & NBA both look at the market which includes:

1.  Media Market:  http://mediainfosaltlakecity.blogspot.com/2010/10/2010-2011-nielsen-dma-market-rankings.html

In 2000 Oklahoma City's media tv households was approximately 605,000
In 2010 Tulsa's tv households numbered 535,000

2.  Metropolitan Population: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Metropolitan_Statistical_Areas

In 2000 Oklahoma City's metro population was right at 1,095,000
IN 2010 Tulsa's metro population was right at  937,000 which cover less area than OKC's metro.

There are more than 2.75 million people living within a 100-mile radius of Tulsa.

Facility:
Tulsa BOK Center seats approximately 17,100 for ice hockey.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_Events_Center

The NHL would be the only game in town and you would surely draw from the Oklahoma City and Wichita markets if an NHL team landed in Tulsa

Ownership Group:?

There are groups in Tulsa and Oklahoma City which could share the responsibility of ownership.

What are your thoughts?

[dbacks fan]

I think anyone would have a difficult time seperating the Coyotes from the City of Glendale. The attached is from a year ago, but it covers most of the agreement between the NHL and the City of Glendale.

Go to page 20, item 23.

http://www.glendaleaz.com/Clerk/agendasandminutes/Meetings/Minutes/121410.pdf

McKenzie says that the NHL will soon throw their support behind either former Sharks president Greg Jamison or former Coyotes interested party in purchasing the team, Jerry Reinsdorf. Reinsdorf is a favorite of the Gary Bettman and of the Glendale City Council. Apparently owning the Chicago White Sox and running the Chicago Bulls looks good on a résumé.

More importantly in all this, McKenzie notes that if a deal can't be worked out in 2012 with either Jamison or Reinsdorf, the NHL's hands will be forced and they'll have to open up the bidding to anyone willing to buy the moribund team. If that happens, it could lead to the Coyotes being relocated.

One way or another, an end game appears to be at hand for the Coyotes. The NHL doesn't want to eat the losses for the team and having the City of Glendale continue to put up their own money to help stem those losses is not a long-term or short-term option anymore. If Jamison or Reinsdorf can't get a deal together that works for the city and keeps the Goldwater Institute out of the process, the Coyotes are going to be on their way out of the desert.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/17/mckenzie-coyotes-sale-saga-to-come-to-a-head-in-2012/


http://www.azcentral.com/community/westvalley/articles/2011/11/25/20111125can-glendale-get-coyotes-deal-done.html

[Hoss]

I think anyone would have a difficult time seperating the Coyotes from the City of Glendale. The attached is from a year ago, but it covers most of the agreement between the NHL and the City of Glendale.

Go to page 20, item 23.

http://www.glendaleaz.com/Clerk/agendasandminutes/Meetings/Minutes/121410.pdf

Agreements were made to be broken.  I'm not saying Tulsa would (or even should) get an NHL team yet, but they (the Coyotes) were on life support last year.   Was just watching NHL Network and jobing.com Arena did not look very full.  And looking at the numbers, 10,969 is not very good (which for that arena would be 64.1 percent capacity, although Dallas is doing worse at 63.9).

EDIT:  If the Coyotes were to go anywhere, it would likely be Quebec City, or even somewhere near Toronto, are the rumors I'm hearing.

[dbacks fan]

Agreements were made to be broken.  I'm not saying Tulsa would (or even should) get an NHL team yet, but they (the Coyotes) were on life support last year.   Was just watching NHL Network and jobing.com Arena did not look very full.  And looking at the numbers, 10,969 is not very good (which for that arena would be 64.1 percent capacity, although Dallas is doing worse at 63.9).

Don't disagree, but I think Jerry Reinsdorf has some clout in Phoenix with owning the White Sox and already established with the Sox's training facility in the valley. Could they be sold and moved? Sure. But Glendale is doing what they can so they aren't left holding the bag with the arena, the Suns aren't moving anytime soon, and if the shopping and entertainment area West Gate is going to survive, it's been foreclosed on if I remember, Glendale will probably do everything they can to keep them there.

[Breadburner]

Sure we can...If it was not for Katrina....OKc would never have had a B-ball team.....Just goes to show how things can work out......No one would have given Okc a chance without that team camping out in Okc for a year.....Okc still sucks though....

[dbacks fan]

Interesting things I have found out in looking into this since I have been gone since July, Tanger and one or two others are planning upscale outlet malls in the Phoenix area. There is one in Palm Springs that is huge near the Morengo Casino complex. (Trump had one there for a while as well) Anyway, they all are looking into locations arounf PHX that were planned for retail development and failed do to the market.

http://www.azcentral.com/business/realestate/articles/2011/12/16/20111216tanger-outlet-considers-westgate.html

http://www.azcentral.com/community/glendale/articles/2011/10/26/20111026glendale-westgate-foreclosures-new-track.html

[Laramie]

Gary Bettman updates Phoenix Coyotes sale situation.

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/19/gary-bettman-updates-phoenix-coyotes-sale-situation/


Tulsa's BOK Center would definitely be a home for an Oklahoma NHL team and the City has the income base to support an NHL franchise in Oklahoma.  You also have two major markets within 150-mile radius of Tulsa:  Wichita & Oklahoma City.

[jacobi]

I would be glued to the plexiglass if an NHL team came to Tulsa.

[puckbag]

What groups in Oklahoma would be interested in bringing an NHL franchise to Tulsa?

An NHL team would be fabulous for the city of Tulsa and would certainly help build the city's exposure and reputation. But unfortunately it seems very unrealistic.

Attendance:
Support for Tulsa's existing pro hockey team is relatively weak. Average attendance for Oilers games this season is currently 4,560 (http://pointstreak.com/prostats/attendance.html?leagueid=12&seasonid=7599). Remember, that's tickets sold/given away, not actual attendance. The ~3,000 regulars are the same ~3,000 regulars that have been going since 1992. They are dedicated and loyal, but where are the other 12,000 going to come from?

Ticket Price:
While I believe some Oilers tickets are over-priced, over all they are priced reasonably well. Through regular promotions, you can go for as little as $10. NHL ticket prices obviously would be much higher. (http://www.tulsaoilers.com/tickets/individual-game-tickets/)

Fair weather fans:
Aren't we notorious for only supporting winning teams? The Phoenix Coyotes have made the playoffs in 7/14 seasons and have never won a playoff series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Phoenix_Coyotes_seasons)

Competition:
There are several municipalities that have a much stronger case for landing a franchise. Quebec City and Kansas City come to mind first. Quebec City obviously has the familiar Canadian audience and Kansas City hosted an NHL pre-season exhibition game this season (http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/sports/exhibition-at-sprint-center-sets-attendance-mark-for-nhl-preseason-games-played-at-neutral-site).

Novelty:
A move to Tulsa would certainly make a big splash but would it sustain?

Bottom line:
The deck is stacked against us and without an ownership group that will do whatever it takes (http://www.thenation.com/article/grand-theft-hoops-stealing-sonics) to get a team, there's no NHL in Tulsa's future.

A more realistic possibility could be Tulsa landing an AHL team. A renewed rivalry with OKC (Barons) as well as building regional rivals in larger markets like Austin, San Antonio and Houston would be good for Tulsa and strengthen Hockey in the region.

[Hoss]

What groups in Oklahoma would be interested in bringing an NHL franchise to Tulsa?

An NHL team would be fabulous for the city of Tulsa and would certainly help build the city's exposure and reputation. But unfortunately it seems very unrealistic.

Attendance:
Support for Tulsa's existing pro hockey team is relatively weak. Average attendance for Oilers games this season is currently 4,560 (http://pointstreak.com/prostats/attendance.html?leagueid=12&seasonid=7599). Remember, that's tickets sold/given away, not actual attendance. The ~3,000 regulars are the same ~3,000 regulars that have been going since 1992. They are dedicated and loyal, but where are the other 12,000 going to come from?

Ticket Price:
While I believe some Oilers tickets are over-priced, over all they are priced reasonably well. Through regular promotions, you can go for as little as $10. NHL ticket prices obviously would be much higher. (http://www.tulsaoilers.com/tickets/individual-game-tickets/)

Fair weather fans:
Aren't we notorious for only supporting winning teams? The Phoenix Coyotes have made the playoffs in 7/14 seasons and have never won a playoff series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Phoenix_Coyotes_seasons)

Competition:
There are several municipalities that have a much stronger case for landing a franchise. Quebec City and Kansas City come to mind first. Quebec City obviously has the familiar Canadian audience and Kansas City hosted an NHL pre-season exhibition game this season (http://www.nbcactionnews.com/dpp/sports/exhibition-at-sprint-center-sets-attendance-mark-for-nhl-preseason-games-played-at-neutral-site).

Novelty:
A move to Tulsa would certainly make a big splash but would it sustain?

Bottom line:
The deck is stacked against us and without an ownership group that will do whatever it takes (http://www.thenation.com/article/grand-theft-hoops-stealing-sonics) to get a team, there's no NHL in Tulsa's future.

A more realistic possibility could be Tulsa landing an AHL team. A renewed rivalry with OKC (Barons) as well as building regional rivals in larger markets like Austin, San Antonio and Houston would be good for Tulsa and strengthen Hockey in the region.

Need to bring Wichita in as well.  It wouldn't be an absolute requirement, but having the CHL 'Trinity' would help all three markets.  Looking at the Barons' avg attendance, they might need it (right now about 3600).

[Conan71]

If OKC had a D-league basketball team instead of one of the hottest franchises in the NBA right now, Cheasapeake Arena would be drawing 4000-5000 fans, if that.  Even if the Thunder sucked, they could consistently get 10,000 plus fans.

I suspect a real-deal NHL franchise could do really well in the Tulsa market.  

The only handicap I can see to it is that a southern market like Tulsa isn't hard-wired for hockey like it is in the northeast.  We are definitely more stick and ball sports rather than stick and puck, but I do believe with the right ownership and marketing, you could see 15,000 fans at games if we had a good franchise.

[puckbag]

I mostly agree with you Conan, a top tier franchise will draw more than a 3rd or 4th level one. And frankly as bad as the Oilers have been in the recent past, its encouraging that attendance is still what it is.

Being the only major pro sport in the market could help offset the non-traditional market aspect.

The key is a group who has the desire and the bank to make it happen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton_Bennett#Owner_of_the_Oklahoma_City_NBA_franchise
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_McClendon#NBA_Oklahoma_City_Thunder

[Hoss]

If OKC had a D-league basketball team instead of one of the hottest franchises in the NBA right now, Cheasapeake Arena would be drawing 4000-5000 fans, if that.  Even if the Thunder sucked, they could consistently get 10,000 plus fans.

I suspect a real-deal NHL franchise could do really well in the Tulsa market.  

The only handicap I can see to it is that a southern market like Tulsa isn't hard-wired for hockey like it is in the northeast.  We are definitely more stick and ball sports rather than stick and puck, but I do believe with the right ownership and marketing, you could see 15,000 fans at games if we had a good franchise.

We'd need to be closer to capacity to really do well.  Keep the Lunds out of the prospect and I think it would do well.  I wish Primeaux had been able to buy the team in the late nineties.  He's hardcore hockey (from New England) and was a huge fan.  He wound up dealing with Lund re: Talons and I'm guessing got a bitter taste from that.  From my understanding, Lund's offering price was high even for the Trump (mid seven figures for a minor league franchise is crazy).

Of all the things I'm a fan of at the BOK, I'm not a fan of the way they configured the club seating.  It is essentially a huge void on those nights when club seat holders don't attend, and since those seats are in the lower bowl, as opposed to having their own level, it really is a detraction.  Allow people to sit in those seats on nights when club seat holders don't attend, and it might help, but that sounds like a logistical nightmare.  I'd rather see us start with the AHL, but rumors are abounding already about whether or not there will be professional hockey of the CHL variety at this time next season.

[Conan71]

Maybe Tulsa only has 3rd or 4th tier owners? 

Only thing is, I could see Bennett or McClendon only being interested in supporting the OKC market with an NHL team.  I get the point that they've got the consortium of money it would require and an existing interest in pro sports.  But I keep hearing in my head: "We've done so well with the NBA in OKC, we ought to bring an NHL franchise here."

In actuality I'd think with our size markets, it would be much smarter to have one pro franchise of different sports at opposite ends of the turnpike.  Less competition for $$ within the same city.

[Hoss]

I mostly agree with you Conan, a top tier franchise will draw more than a 3rd or 4th level one. And frankly as bad as the Oilers have been in the recent past, its encouraging that attendance is still what it is.

Being the only major pro sport in the market could help offset the non-traditional market aspect.

The key is a group who has the desire and the bank to make it happen:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clayton_Bennett#Owner_of_the_Oklahoma_City_NBA_franchise
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_McClendon#NBA_Oklahoma_City_Thunder

Funk of Express Sports pitched Tulsa and the BOK Center when the Penguins were haggling with the City of Pittsburgh over a new arena.  The arena deal ultimately got done (Consol Energy Center), but just the fact that OKCers were pitching us for a relocation (could you imagine Sidney Crosby here?) actually made me like OKC.  For about 10 days, until the arena deal closed with the city.