Good Bye downtown Coney Island

[AquaMan]

I loved the building and hated to see it go. If the Golden Driller were on land downtown the owners would undoubtedly come to the same conclusion and drop him for parking. That is the real problem here to me. Its not that economically it wasn't defendable and certainly within the owners rights. Its that the ownership of such icons is in the hands of unimaginative, single minded entities. That is what held up downtown for so long was buildings sitting fallow while owners waited for them to become more valuable. When they became more of a burden than they could justify they dropped them and made parking lots.

It seems that people only saw the building as a hotel or a parking lot and that was an easy choice given the economics. And don't ask me what my idea would have been for the building. Owners have the wealth, creatives have the imagination. Owners by and large listen to accountants, not creatives. Suffice it to say, there was a much better use for that building and there are still a lot of short sighted people willing to flatten buildings all over town.

[TulsaGuy]

I went to a Tulsa Preservation Commission Presentation last year that brought in preservation-minded professionals from around the country who broke up into teams to come up with redevelopment plans for abandoned downtown buildings.  A few of the teams did the Downtowner and one of the ideas that I can remember was converting it into small apartment living directed at artists who couldn't afford $800+ rents and were more interested in living downtown than in the size of their living unit.  I thought it was really a viable option and would add some good affordable living downtown.  Unfortunately, this did not happen.

[TheArtist]

  And why do these building owners decide that they have to renovate the whole building all at once?  I am sure there is a good reason I don't know about, but I also think there are likely solutions.  Why not do one floor at a time?  A few units at a time. Charge lesser rents at first just to get things going and pay the taxes and insurance, then more later as you continue to build out.  etc. etc.   

[AquaMan]

  And why do these building owners decide that they have to renovate the whole building all at once?  I am sure there is a good reason I don't know about, but I also think there are likely solutions.  Why not do one floor at a time?  A few units at a time. Charge lesser rents at first just to get things going and pay the taxes and insurance, then more later as you continue to build out.  etc. etc.   

I'm sure its the economies of scale. Doing them a few at a time makes sense to a smaller owner but means nothing but duplicative headaches for a multiple property owner. One contract, one permit, etc. Nonetheless I appreciate your philosophy that redeveloping a property incrementally allows it to pay for itself and allows a learning curve to take effect.

I really like the idea the preservationist teams came up with. Was the owner made aware of these other options?

[Teatownclown]

AM, as one of the previous owners of The Downtowner, I can tell you the City of Tulsa is better off without....

TPD and Lynn Jones Pierce (Tulsa's first woman cop) set up shop there to entrap "customers" and "clients".... long time ago.

The only historical significance of this property is it had the highest hourly rentals of any establishment in TeaTown....

[AquaMan]

Yeah, well, Guapos is next to the Mays rooms too. I was mostly enamored of its modern architecture which was at odds with the surrounding buildings. It was in my eyes garish and outlandish which is what the 60's was all about. As Conan noted there is a following for that style now and my tastes are irrelevant. It was surely iconic for those of us who saw it during our work tenure downtown in the 70's-80's.

I once saw a couple standing nude behind one of the sliding glass doors on the east side and waving at office workers nearby. Most of the Tulsa World employees had seen other couples there as well so I figure it had become a bit sketchy. But I also figured it was pretty well built.

[Red Arrow]

There are some old airplanes, boats, cars, and other things that are rebuilt at pretty much any cost.  Others not so much.  I think old buildings may fall into that category.  If a building cannot be profitably repurposed, it's just going to require someone with deeeeeeep pockets to say I want to do this because (fill in whatever non-economic reason fits here).

[TulsaGuy]

AquaMan I believe the building's owner was there but I cant say that with certainty.  Other teams presented on a Sager building and he was definitely there. 

[AquaMan]

I speculate that owners play a lot of follow the leader in the commercial real estate industry just like oil and gas. They all want to build lofts, restaurants, bars etc. At some point some of them have to realize that those new downtown inhabitants need things that folks in the outlying areas don't. For instance, the downtown lifestyle probably won't be as car centric as the burbs. That implies that many of these buildings should be re-purposed for something other than what enticed the new patrons to come downtown in the first place.

Does that make sense? So, when I see a building that is saveable, but not as its intended purpose and unsuitable for lofts, bars,etc, it seems a total waste of energy and resources to just flatten it.

[zstyles]

I was in Dallas last weekend, 7-11 had a 600sf store setup at the corner of an condo development, it was about half the size of a regular store with some food options, drinks, etc....nice little store and it was very busy...if QT would do something like this or someone would...I think it might be a winner downtown...he if Supercuts can make it in Downtown Tulsa ...I would think they could!

[TheTed]

I was in Dallas last weekend, 7-11 had a 600sf store setup at the corner of an condo development, it was about half the size of a regular store with some food options, drinks, etc....nice little store and it was very busy...if QT would do something like this or someone would...I think it might be a winner downtown...he if Supercuts can make it in Downtown Tulsa ...I would think they could!

A downtown QT would be awesome. Even Wichita has one in their Old Town. It's a regular, car-centric one, but still. Beggars can't be choosers. And being realistic, downtown Tulsa's never gonna be anything but car-centric.

Oklahoma=Texas lite. We look to Texas and OKC for everything. There's not much urbanity in Texas.

The existence of Supercuts, given their current hours, doesn't prove much about downtown to me. They're only open M-F until 6pm and Saturday 'til 1pm. Closed Sundays. If they were open somewhere close to the same hours other Supercuts around town are open, you'd have a point.

[ttown9]

The Coney Island downtown is still open. The building they were in was bought out for new construction so Coney Island moved to their original location which is right down the street and next to Orpha's Lounge. The building they are now in, was their original location when first opened! Make sure to check out the new building, lot's of history and still, same delicious food!
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[custosnox]

The Coney Island downtown is still open. The building they were in was bought out for new construction so Coney Island moved to their original location which is right down the street and next to Orpha's Lounge. The building they are now in, was their original location when first opened! Make sure to check out the new building, lot's of history and still, same delicious food!
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This was already discussed

Coney Island moving back into old downtown space


The property is managed by American Parking.

"I guess they are just going to tear it down,"

http://www.tulsaworld.com/scene/article.aspx?subjectid=371&articleid=20120206_371_0_Maybey23805

[carltonplace]

And it's a parking lot. $85 per month.

It doesn't look like they intend to pave it, or screen it or prettify it in any way.

Shouldn't the City of Tulsa have an ordinance for surface level parking inside the IDL?

At a minimum there should be rules for screening, landscaping, pavement, curb cuts, sidewalks, signage, and lighting. Maybe if COT regulates the crap out of them they would be less attractive to create?

Found this on the Tulsa Preservation site:
Looking north on Boston in 1978


Looking north on Boston in 2005

[Conan71]

Tulsa's new slogan:

"TULSA! WE LOVE OUR SURFACE PARKING! MMMM, MMMM MMMM!"