Nuts With Guns

[Conan71]

So, nobody here is asking what the hell gramps was doing in the house with a gun having a prior conviction?

So far, no word on where the gun came from, TTC.  The only thing I've heard which is so far unsubstantiated, is that the grandfather's prior was for shooting at a neighbor who supposedly mowed onto his property.  Given that, and the fact he suffered from some sort of dementia-related disease, I don't suspect that Donnie and Jodie knew he had access to one and would not have knowingly left him access to one.

I've known the family for many years.  I was stunned when I got the call Saturday morning about 11:30 from a friend at the Expo building that DRC had been shot and killed.  Fortunately, there was a lack of wild rumors and speculation circulating at the Chili Bowl on Saturday.  Instead, there was solid info directly from the family that the grandfather was suffering from dementia and possibly Alzheimer's and there was no "dispute".  He entered the room, shot Donnie Ray in the back three times for no apparent reason, and Donnie Ray's parents both tried to intervene and get the gun away from the grandfather.  In the process the gun went off again and shot the grandfather in addition to Jodie (DRC's mom) being wounded.

The huge shock is the Crawfords are somewhat of a model family.  The grandfather had been living with them due to his illness.  Donnie Ray did not have any drug problems, wasn't some sort of maggot, just a great all around young man.  He actually was to have started classes at OU tomorrow morning.

Just a sick horrible tragedy and one I'd prefer we not trivialize here.

[heironymouspasparagus]

So far, no word on where the gun came from, TTC.  The only thing I've heard which is so far unsubstantiated, is that the grandfather's prior was for shooting at a neighbor who supposedly mowed onto his property.  Given that, and the fact he suffered from some sort of dementia-related disease, I don't suspect that Donnie and Jodie knew he had access to one and would not have knowingly left him access to one.

I've known the family for many years.  I was stunned when I got the call Saturday morning about 11:30 from a friend at the Expo building that DRC had been shot and killed.  Fortunately, there was a lack of wild rumors and speculation circulating at the Chili Bowl on Saturday.  Instead, there was solid info directly from the family that the grandfather was suffering from dementia and possibly Alzheimer's and there was no "dispute".  He entered the room, shot Donnie Ray in the back three times for no apparent reason, and Donnie Ray's parents both tried to intervene and get the gun away from the grandfather.  In the process the gun went off again and shot the grandfather in addition to Jodie (DRC's mom) being wounded.

The huge shock is the Crawfords are somewhat of a model family.  The grandfather had been living with them due to his illness.  Donnie Ray did not have any drug problems, wasn't some sort of maggot, just a great all around young man.  He actually was to have started classes at OU tomorrow morning.

Just a sick horrible tragedy and one I'd prefer we not trivialize here.

Sad!  Very, very horribly sad all around!

[DolfanBob]

Thank's Conan. I am a big racing fan and was shocked as many were around here. I was hoping that someone had a little more clarity to the situation.

[AquaMan]

When I was teen we used to watch the stocks over on the fairgrounds and one of the most popular drivers was a Ray Crawford iirc. Is that the grandfather?

[Conan71]

When I was teen we used to watch the stocks over on the fairgrounds and one of the most popular drivers was a Ray Crawford iirc. Is that the grandfather?

Donnie Ray was killed by his maternal grandfather, Daniel Garcia.

Ray was still quite active with Donnie Ray's racing he did quite a bit of the car prep during the week and at the track.  Donnie Ray's father, Donnie was a Tulsa Speedway legend in his own right driving a sprint car in the 1980's and 1990's.  Interesting thing, Aqua: Emmett Hahn and Ray Crawford were big rivals in the 1970's essentially swapping the Super Modified championship back and forth.  The media and fans made it more of a rivalry, IMO.  At any rate, I thought it was pretty cool that Emmett's grandson, Blake was racing for the same team as Donnie Ray this past week.

I've still never gotten used to the idea you can see someone very alive, very vibrant and 12 hours later they are no longer here.

[AquaMan]

And you probably never will. Compassionate, well adjusted, people and military combatants rely on faith and therapists to get through.

I spoke with an older WWII vet one time who told me a story about sitting on a log in a city in France they had just liberated, next to a fellow soldier who he had just leaned over and lit a cigarette for. The man suddenly stopped in mid-sentence as a sniper's bullet passed through his head. My battle hardened acquaintance was still stunned after 40 years at the immediate cessation of life during a rather relaxed unprepared moment.

Terrible tragedy for the family to lose two ends of a family. My condolences.

[heironymouspasparagus]

I've still never gotten used to the idea you can see someone very alive, very vibrant and 12 hours later they are no longer here.

Hopefully you won't.  That is one of the things that makes us human...don't want to lose that.

[AquaMan]

I'd like to see those stats, because as I sit here and think about every killing that I've heard about in the past year, only this one and possibly one other was it done with the persons own gun, and the other I'm fairly sure he didn't know the shooter.

I took a few minutes to do a quick search on Google with this question, "are gun owners statistically more likely to be shot by their own guns?"
Four of the first five results were affirmative. Three of those were based on scientific studies by non aligned parties. The other one was an anti gun group of lawyers ranting and the negative one was an obvious unscientific gun proponent rant. There were lots more. They all ranged from 2.5 times to more than 5.6 times more likely for a gun owner to be a gunshot victim. And apparently, Pennsylvania is a dangerous place to live!

However, they all readily admitted that there were lots of questions left by the studies. They did address suicide and that seems appropriate as the question does not differentiate between a criminal, an accident or a suicide. They are all just as much a victim.


Anyway, FWIW:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922-carrying-a-gun-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
http://guncite.com/gun-control-kellermann-3times.html
http://www.lcav.org/statistics-polling/gun_violence_statistics.asp
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/2009/09/gun-possession-safety/

[custosnox]

I took a few minutes to do a quick search on Google with this question, "are gun owners statistically more likely to be shot by their own guns?"
Four of the first five results were affirmative. Three of those were based on scientific studies by non aligned parties. The other one was an anti gun group of lawyers ranting and the negative one was an obvious unscientific gun proponent rant. There were lots more. They all ranged from 2.5 times to more than 5.6 times more likely for a gun owner to be a gunshot victim. And apparently, Pennsylvania is a dangerous place to live!

However, they all readily admitted that there were lots of questions left by the studies. They did address suicide and that seems appropriate as the question does not differentiate between a criminal, an accident or a suicide. They are all just as much a victim.


Anyway, FWIW:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn17922-carrying-a-gun-increases-risk-of-getting-shot-and-killed.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
http://guncite.com/gun-control-kellermann-3times.html
http://www.lcav.org/statistics-polling/gun_violence_statistics.asp
http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/2009/09/gun-possession-safety/

I went over a few myself, and another point on the issue is are LEOs a part of these stats?  From what I saw none made that a separate point on the issue.  As you said, it leaves a lot of questions to be answered.

[Teatownclown]

Breaking News: Man opens fire in an Oregon shopping mall. 2 dead so far (MSNBC).

[cynical]

There's a third death. The gunman killed himself.

[heironymouspasparagus]

There's a third death. The gunman killed himself.

Good riddance - the tragedy is he didn't have the common decency to do that first, before hurting anyone else.  The Slimeball....

[sauerkraut]

Many nuts with guns are high on drugs, or their brain is fryed from drug use.

[Hoss]

Looks like someone has made their way to the library today.

[sgrizzle]

Good riddance - the tragedy is he didn't have the common decency to do that first, before hurting anyone else.  The Slimeball....

I would like them to hang around so we could get some answers.